Road relief

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Albetta
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Road relief

Post by Albetta » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:28 pm

I would like to have your opinion on the survey with Laser technology, of a stretch of road, about ml. 300 where the sewers and water system will be renewed. The road is inside a historic village and the width of the buildings facing each other is about 6-10 ml. I will have to note, the facades, the roadway, the sidewalks, the curbs, the thresholds of the dwellings so as to allow the designers to better evaluate the slopes of what will have to be reconstructed. I've always done these jobs with traditional topographic instrumentation, now I was thinking of using the Laser S150 in my possession. As graphic restitution, I will have to provide a 2d card with the characteristic points and their altitude, as well as the sections in the positions that I will indicate. Obviously in the cloud there will be all these points, which software would you recommend to approach the graphic restitution to a more similar one with the one that would result with the topographic survey with total station?

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Re: Road relief

Post by gsisman » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:33 pm

Albetta wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:28 pm
I would like to have your opinion on the survey with Laser technology, of a stretch of road, about ml. 300 where the sewers and water system will be renewed. The road is inside a historic village and the width of the buildings facing each other is about 6-10 ml. I will have to note, the facades, the roadway, the sidewalks, the curbs, the thresholds of the dwellings so as to allow the designers to better evaluate the slopes of what will have to be reconstructed. I've always done these jobs with traditional topographic instrumentation, now I was thinking of using the Laser S150 in my possession. As graphic restitution, I will have to provide a 2d card with the characteristic points and their altitude, as well as the sections in the positions that I will indicate. Obviously in the cloud there will be all these points, which software would you recommend to approach the graphic restitution to a more similar one with the one that would result with the topographic survey with total station?
If you are doing full field to finish with a robotic total station. It is still the fastest way to go in producing a 2d/3d plan with all that detail in an urban environment. The point cloud is nice to have and wouldn't take more than a day on a job like that, and then you've captured everything so no repeat trips. I've done detailed jobs like that and their is always a bit more of the final matching in to curbs,steps, drainage grading that the engineers always request after the survey so the cloud will have that.

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stutosney
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Re: Road relief

Post by stutosney » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:20 pm

Albetta wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:28 pm
I would like to have your opinion on the survey with Laser technology, of a stretch of road, about ml. 300 where the sewers and water system will be renewed. The road is inside a historic village and the width of the buildings facing each other is about 6-10 ml. I will have to note, the facades, the roadway, the sidewalks, the curbs, the thresholds of the dwellings so as to allow the designers to better evaluate the slopes of what will have to be reconstructed. I've always done these jobs with traditional topographic instrumentation, now I was thinking of using the Laser S150 in my possession. As graphic restitution, I will have to provide a 2d card with the characteristic points and their altitude, as well as the sections in the positions that I will indicate. Obviously in the cloud there will be all these points, which software would you recommend to approach the graphic restitution to a more similar one with the one that would result with the topographic survey with total station?
Hi, good to hear you're considering using scanning. A word of warning, if you have never scanned before, maybe ease yourself in with some practice projects or smaller areas to begin with to get used to the processing and site work. Scanning will give you a lot of data and look very nice, but you have to consider processing time and extraction methods as well. Do you have the software in place to do this? You also have to consider the cost of hiring/purchasing the software and hardware as well as upgrading your PC to handle the data if necessary. I am always keen to see people utilize scanning, but you have to consider all the info. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

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Re: Road relief

Post by max72 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:52 pm

I did similar project, in larger roads, and it went fairly well.
A couple of considerations:
- Target registration is not possible unless you do your scan from midnight to 5am, so you have to rely on C2C.
- Try to elevate the tripod as much as possible (I used a remote to activate the scanner)
- Use control points using GPS or total station (with C2C it's mandatory anyway)
- according to your budget use more (closer) scans with less resolution rather than less more detailed scans farther away

I created my deliverables combining pointcab (both "x" ray and intensity) with Rhino + Arena.

Pointcab Xray image shows vertical elements (walls, curbs..) while the intensity image shows manholes, road signs.. the image are a nice deliverable too.

Combining Arena and Rhino you can create points with 3D coordinates in the relevant points, and access the same informations pointcab offers.

If you model in Rhino using pointcab check that the massive pointcab raster images are not embedded in the rhino file, but are used as an external link...
Rhino Arena plugin links externally the pointcloud, so no problem here.

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Re: Road relief

Post by Albetta » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:05 am

I have already done several jobs with laser scanners, and certainly more at ease with robotic stations (gps has no signal on those small roads), I will definitely use control points and thanks for the advice, certainly more laser stations. The PC is up to date, the local retailer has offered me pointcab but I'm not sure (I don't know enough about it, the trial lasts 3 days) that I can do what I need. The budget is not high but to be addressed to a software that can satisfy me. Arhena and rhino are unkempt, never used or seen in operation, I would prefer software plugin cad, but available to other indications

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Re: Road relief

Post by landmeterbeuckx » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:27 am

Pointcab is a good software for this. Not ideal but it gets the job done.

This is how i do these drawings
-generate a sufrace from scan data to recap and then in civil3d
-draw linework in 2d in pointcab
-pick objects in pointcab and code accordingly
-process codes of above points in surveying package
-drape lines and points over civil3d terrain.
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Re: Road relief

Post by Albetta » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:19 am

landmeterbeuckx wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:27 am
Pointcab is a good software for this. Not ideal but it gets the job done.

This is how i do these drawings
-generate a sufrace from scan data to recap and then in civil3d
-draw linework in 2d in pointcab
-pick objects in pointcab and code accordingly
-process codes of above points in surveying package
-drape lines and points over civil3d terrain.
Thank you, I read many of your interventions and I thought you were a PoinCab user, but I see that you use more software for the final result, is there any software that manages these situations instead of having to use more than one?

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stutosney
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Re: Road relief

Post by stutosney » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:19 pm

Albetta wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:19 am
landmeterbeuckx wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:27 am
Pointcab is a good software for this. Not ideal but it gets the job done.

This is how i do these drawings
-generate a sufrace from scan data to recap and then in civil3d
-draw linework in 2d in pointcab
-pick objects in pointcab and code accordingly
-process codes of above points in surveying package
-drape lines and points over civil3d terrain.
Thank you, I read many of your interventions and I thought you were a PoinCab user, but I see that you use more software for the final result, is there any software that manages these situations instead of having to use more than one?
Have a look at LSS by McCarthy Taylor (www.dtmsoftware.com). They released a point cloud version of their survey software a few years back, i only only used it briefly but know people back in the UK who use it. You can 'trace' all your 3D line work from the registered point cloud and it handles large data sets really well. You can basically create full topographical surveys as well as 3D models in it and it's pretty basic to use. the advantage is that it is a specialized survey software, so you do all your survey processing and scan processing in one package.

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Re: Road relief

Post by Strider3D » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:41 pm

I have completed several projects of this nature with civil3d only, (recap of course to generate the compatible file). Surfaces can be created from the point cloud or the old fashioned way with field to finish procedures. Feature lines can be snapped to the point cloud or 2d lines traced in top down view. I have also used Carlson software which has a point cloud solution and the process is similar. If unsure maybe look into hiring out the post-processing.

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Re: Road relief

Post by scott.diaz » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:32 pm

If you are already an S150 user you might look at FARO AsBuilt AutoCAD. The SmartSnap features are quite handy in Civil3D for getting low/high/edge/corner points as well as some tools to extract points on a grid and perform some profile extraction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzkz9d8SawE

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