Importing RTC360 data & Control not aligning

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kamac93
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Importing RTC360 data & Control not aligning

Post by kamac93 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:09 am

Hi,

I have imported RTC360 scan data which has been aligned in the field on Field360.

I have handful of scan targets coordinated amongst about 24 scan targets used to assist in positioning scans together.

I imported a control file into Cyclone along with the scan data. Although not all coordinated targets have been identified... I have about 3 out of 7 coordinated scan targets in the registration, although cannot seem to get Cyclone to identify all.

I have tried using all the options on Advanced Auto-Add Constraints (2, 3 and 'all').

Anyone else had this issue?

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Re: Importing RTC360 data & Control not aligning

Post by Moc » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:54 am

Maybe the targets dont match the tolerance threshold you can define under "Preferences -> Registration -> Auto-Add Constraint Tolerance" (Default is 9mm)

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Re: Importing RTC360 data & Control not aligning

Post by pburrows145 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:58 am

Also, have the vertexes been extracted for the control? Are they accurate? Do they exist in the control space? Do the names of the targets in the control file match the targetID's?

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Re: Importing RTC360 data & Control not aligning

Post by Jamesrye » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:57 pm

Anyone else had this issue?
Yes. The last two projects with the RTC360 have been a big problem to accurately register. It's because the tilt sensor isn't accurate enough (at 3 minutes is it?). The scans aren't auto-aligned well enough and some of them are still coming into Cyclone way off level (though it's the subtly tilted ones that are hardest to correct). In the field, we tried waiting for 10 seconds at each setup prior to scanning and even using a proper tripod and levelling the thing. In the preview window, everything looks great, but once imported and checked, it's clear that it's not aligned nicely. You need to colourise each scan a different color in the scanworld explorer and then create thin slices to identify the problem scans. The tighter you can get the registration, the better the fit will be at the control points.

We partially solve the issue by using targets and then manually adding cloud constraints using visual alignment. But, you can still see 5mm to 1cm of misalignment between scans, so we have to use the 3 point pick method......for each scan. Otherwise, at distances of say 50m, you can see 2-3cm of data misalignment. This can propagate through your network.

In practice, if you want accurate registration, you need LOTS of control points, and some want to be just outside your survey area. Target placement is also key, if they are all in a line then the data could fit at the control points but still be tilted badly away from them.

As you cannot fine scan control targets in the field, you need a field sketch/notes so that you can locate them in the scan data. Then you need to add in the target name and height. Are you adding the control points into the registration? or are you registering the data and then fitting to the control in a separate registration?

I don't want to name them, but the hire company that we have used have also advised us that getting tight registrations with the RTC360 is a problem and you start to see other people on the forum having issues also.

Like the BLK360, this scanner might seem to be simple and easy to use, but I think you are far better off using a proper surveying instrument like the P40 or the ever trusty C10 - a scanner that was certainly built to be reliable and built to last.

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Re: Importing RTC360 data & Control not aligning

Post by landmeterbeuckx » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:29 pm

get a vz400i or a z&f and your problems will be solved
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Re: Importing RTC360 data & Control not aligning

Post by stevenramsey » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:43 pm

Jamesrye wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:57 pm
Anyone else had this issue?
Yes. The last two projects with the RTC360 have been a big problem to accurately register. It's because the tilt sensor isn't accurate enough (at 3 minutes is it?). The scans aren't auto-aligned well enough and some of them are still coming into Cyclone way off level (though it's the subtly tilted ones that are hardest to correct). In the field, we tried waiting for 10 seconds at each setup prior to scanning and even using a proper tripod and levelling the thing. In the preview window, everything looks great, but once imported and checked, it's clear that it's not aligned nicely. You need to colourise each scan a different color in the scanworld explorer and then create thin slices to identify the problem scans. The tighter you can get the registration, the better the fit will be at the control points.

We partially solve the issue by using targets and then manually adding cloud constraints using visual alignment. But, you can still see 5mm to 1cm of misalignment between scans, so we have to use the 3 point pick method......for each scan. Otherwise, at distances of say 50m, you can see 2-3cm of data misalignment. This can propagate through your network.

In practice, if you want accurate registration, you need LOTS of control points, and some want to be just outside your survey area. Target placement is also key, if they are all in a line then the data could fit at the control points but still be tilted badly away from them.

As you cannot fine scan control targets in the field, you need a field sketch/notes so that you can locate them in the scan data. Then you need to add in the target name and height. Are you adding the control points into the registration? or are you registering the data and then fitting to the control in a separate registration?

I don't want to name them, but the hire company that we have used have also advised us that getting tight registrations with the RTC360 is a problem and you start to see other people on the forum having issues also.

Like the BLK360, this scanner might seem to be simple and easy to use, but I think you are far better off using a proper surveying instrument like the P40 or the ever trusty C10 - a scanner that was certainly built to be reliable and built to last.
For my own interest I would love to dig deeper in to the issues your having. Having been registering RTC data for over 18 mouths now and can honestly say I have never had your issue bar the few scans that arrive on the Tablet tilted when the VIS lost track which is very easy to fix. There seems to be two questions here, Registering together RTC data where you say they are miss aligned (please ignore the tilt sensor in this aspect) then you say that it doesn't match to control which is the only way to get scanners like this in to the real world. Levelling the instrument on a tripod will make no difference at all (don't get me started on the whole Scan and Go)

So would love to dig in to your workflow settings and process I'm not sure I have had a job that has been mathematically and visually worse than a few mm (note only C2C) with jobs between 50 and 1600 scans in them
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Re: Importing RTC360 data & Control not aligning

Post by gsisman » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:53 am

Jamesrye wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:57 pm
Anyone else had this issue?
Yes. The last two projects with the RTC360 have been a big problem to accurately register. It's because the tilt sensor isn't accurate enough (at 3 minutes is it?). The scans aren't auto-aligned well enough and some of them are still coming into Cyclone way off level (though it's the subtly tilted ones that are hardest to correct). In the field, we tried waiting for 10 seconds at each setup prior to scanning and even using a proper tripod and levelling the thing. In the preview window, everything looks great, but once imported and checked, it's clear that it's not aligned nicely. You need to colourise each scan a different color in the scanworld explorer and then create thin slices to identify the problem scans. The tighter you can get the registration, the better the fit will be at the control points.

We partially solve the issue by using targets and then manually adding cloud constraints using visual alignment. But, you can still see 5mm to 1cm of misalignment between scans, so we have to use the 3 point pick method......for each scan. Otherwise, at distances of say 50m, you can see 2-3cm of data misalignment. This can propagate through your network.

In practice, if you want accurate registration, you need LOTS of control points, and some want to be just outside your survey area. Target placement is also key, if they are all in a line then the data could fit at the control points but still be tilted badly away from them.

As you cannot fine scan control targets in the field, you need a field sketch/notes so that you can locate them in the scan data. Then you need to add in the target name and height. Are you adding the control points into the registration? or are you registering the data and then fitting to the control in a separate registration?

I don't want to name them, but the hire company that we have used have also advised us that getting tight registrations with the RTC360 is a problem and you start to see other people on the forum having issues also.

Like the BLK360, this scanner might seem to be simple and easy to use, but I think you are far better off using a proper surveying instrument like the P40 or the ever trusty C10 - a scanner that was certainly built to be reliable and built to last.
I can't really speak to Cyclone, but I know that when you bring in RTC data from Field 360 you basically have one tie registration to the previous scan, or two or three if you have branches of scan runs. You have to create a lot more cross link cloud to cloud links in Reg 360 in order to Tighten up the registration. And a lot of these you may need to three point pick- depending on the environment. The outdoor scans or indoor ones with little or no Vertical and horizontal planes (i.e. Parking Garages) in them are difficult in my opinion than just running through a regular building. I'd like to see an advanced processing class offered online for Register 360 that handles problem data and how to deal with it efficiently.

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