Ultimate Computer Setup for Processing RTC360 Data

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dineshkimraj
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Ultimate Computer Setup for Processing RTC360 Data

Post by dineshkimraj » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:09 pm

Good day all.

We have just bought a RTC360 laser scanner and have done some jobs using it.
While the fieldwork phase is very quick, processing can take a lot of time. Current import time is about 10-11 scans at highest quality with HDR imagery of about 1hr.

My current computer setup is:

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2950X 16-Core Processor
Radeon (TM) Pro WX 5100 Graphics card
64GB RAM
2x1TB SSD
1x2TB SATA

So my question is what is the ultimate computer setup for processing, unlimited budget.

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Re: Ultimate Computer Setup for Processing RTC360 Data

Post by Abraham_142 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:57 am

dineshkimraj wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:09 pm
Good day all.

We have just bought a RTC360 laser scanner and have done some jobs using it.
While the fieldwork phase is very quick, processing can take a lot of time. Current import time is about 10-11 scans at highest quality with HDR imagery of about 1hr.

My current computer setup is:

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2950X 16-Core Processor
Radeon (TM) Pro WX 5100 Graphics card
64GB RAM
2x1TB SSD
1x2TB SATA

So my question is what is the ultimate computer setup for processing, unlimited budget.
Hi!!

There're some posts on the forum about this topic, and from my experience I have the same CPU as you and a Intel core i7 8700K, and Cyclone works better with hi clock speeds, if you have unlimited budget I definitely go for the Core i9-9980XE and 128 GB of RAM and for storage a RAID 0 with NvME

Or at least a i9 9900K, and there're some new MOBO that accept 128 GB of RAM, but the RAM is special and hard to find.

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Re: Ultimate Computer Setup for Processing RTC360 Data

Post by geomontgomery » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:17 pm

Abraham_142 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:57 am
dineshkimraj wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:09 pm
Good day all.

We have just bought a RTC360 laser scanner and have done some jobs using it.
While the fieldwork phase is very quick, processing can take a lot of time. Current import time is about 10-11 scans at highest quality with HDR imagery of about 1hr.

My current computer setup is:

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2950X 16-Core Processor
Radeon (TM) Pro WX 5100 Graphics card
64GB RAM
2x1TB SSD
1x2TB SATA

So my question is what is the ultimate computer setup for processing, unlimited budget.
Hi!!

There're some posts on the forum about this topic, and from my experience I have the same CPU as you and a Intel core i7 8700K, and Cyclone works better with hi clock speeds, if you have unlimited budget I definitely go for the Core i9-9980XE and 128 GB of RAM and for storage a RAID 0 with NvME

Or at least a i9 9900K, and there're some new MOBO that accept 128 GB of RAM, but the RAM is special and hard to find.
The special ram you mention is probably ECC memory, which doesn't afford any benefits over traditional RAM for the type of work we're doing. With that much ram I'm wondering what the effect would be by utilizing a ram disk instead of a conventional SSD would be. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_drive

I agree with your statement about high clock speeds, single core clock speed is definitely the biggest contributing factor to faster importing times with Cyclone. A good resource for anyone interested in this metric would be userbenchmark.org - since you can sort by exactly this factor: https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/

OP didn't mention in his original post but if he's using Cyclone REGISTER 360, it is indeed multi-threaded and will use more than one core during import, however I'm not sure if all 16 cores are being utilized from his processor. By running windows resource monitor during import you can inspect this pretty easily. I use a i7-8700k and see 100% utilization - not sure what 16 core threadripper would show.

From reading other threads on this topic on import speed and hardware where users would go as far as overclocking their processor to achieve better import speed - have not gone down this path myself but interesting to hear what lengths people are going to since import time = money.

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Re: Ultimate Computer Setup for Processing RTC360 Data

Post by dineshkimraj » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:30 pm

Thanks for the feedback everyone.
We also have another computer we use for processing. I'm not too sure about the specs but its an Intel i7 processor,(think its 7th Gen) with 64gb of RAM. Import time into Reg360 is about the same as with the Threadripper system using the same settings.

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Re: Ultimate Computer Setup for Processing RTC360 Data

Post by Abraham_142 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:43 pm

geomontgomery wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:17 pm

The special ram you mention is probably ECC memory, which doesn't afford any benefits over traditional RAM for the type of work we're doing. With that much ram I'm wondering what the effect would be by utilizing a ram disk instead of a conventional SSD would be. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_drive

I agree with your statement about high clock speeds, single core clock speed is definitely the biggest contributing factor to faster importing times with Cyclone. A good resource for anyone interested in this metric would be userbenchmark.org - since you can sort by exactly this factor: https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/

OP didn't mention in his original post but if he's using Cyclone REGISTER 360, it is indeed multi-threaded and will use more than one core during import, however I'm not sure if all 16 cores are being utilized from his processor. By running windows resource monitor during import you can inspect this pretty easily. I use a i7-8700k and see 100% utilization - not sure what 16 core threadripper would show.

From reading other threads on this topic on import speed and hardware where users would go as far as overclocking their processor to achieve better import speed - have not gone down this path myself but interesting to hear what lengths people are going to since import time = money.
Hi

About the RAM I meant the JEDEC standard to support DDR4 32GB, I read some news that G.Skill will launch this sticks this year, so some Z390 launch new BIOS to the MOBO to support it.

As you mention the Intel always use the 100% and all cores, the AMD TR is a bit weird, sometimes it use all cores at 100% and sometimes it doesn’t, I don’t know the reason this happened, also I quit processing in AMD because some stability issues.

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Re: Ultimate Computer Setup for Processing RTC360 Data

Post by mstachoni » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:32 pm

dineshkimraj wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:09 pm
My current computer setup is:
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2950X 16-Core Processor
Radeon (TM) Pro WX 5100 Graphics card
64GB RAM
2x1TB SSD
1x2TB SATA
The "minimize import time" question comes up a lot but it boils down to a few factors (not all of which are hardware related):
1. What do you use for your "Register Using" options? Selecting "Auto Target" with "Auto Cloud" will cost time as Reg360 uses the targets identified in the field (e.g. as with an HDS P40) as well as with anything it considers looking at all like a normal target. This often results in lots of additional time as it looks for target imagery in the scans then prioritizes those targets for the registration. I always get a lot of false positives for targets and have to manually delete them. Assuming you aren't using targets in your scans, uncheck "Auto Target" and see if your import time drops. With RTC data already registered in Field 360, you should also be able to use the "Pre-registered" option and see import times drop.

2. Regarding the CPU: It's kind of a mystery as to how multithreaded Cyclone Register 360 actually is. There are two major variables with every CPU model: Number of cores and base/turbo clock speed. How well the core count affects import depends on how multithreaded the import process is. Sometimes higher core count /= raw computing speed depending on application. The base/turbo clock speed is often more of a factor, especially in single-threaded apps, because the turbo clock speed is the speed at which one (or maybe two depending on CPU) of the cores will overclock itself. It is not the speed at which all cores will run. Some folks have posted better results with a fast i9-9900K which only has 8 cores, but has a much faster core clock that the 2950X, implying Reg360 isn't tuned as well for multithreaded operations. However this can also be due to Windows' scheduling issues, an applicaton's use of AVX-512 instructions, and other factors as well.

3. RAM: Scan import and registration is extremely memory hungry and I've seen import operations use up all of my 64GB of RAM. The AMD TR platform supports up to 128GB. With the 8 RAM slots on the motherboard the prudent move is to only cry once, install 8 x 16GB modules, and max the thing out to 128GB.

4. Hard disk configuration: This is likely the culprit of most "imports take way too long" complaints. SSDs should always be used over mechanical HDDs and specifically NVMe SSDs should always be specified over older SATA SSDs, as they are several times faster. NVMe and SATA are protocols, not interfaces or form factors; The NVMe protocol uses the PCIe bus and is built specifically for SSDs, whereas SATA is its own interface and was built for standard HDDs but choke on the speeds available with SSDs and is thus a bottleneck when used with SSDs (although still many times faster than mechanical HDDs)

For comparison:
7200 RPM Hard Drive – ave. read/write speed of 80-160MB/second
SATA 3 SSD – read/write speed up to 550MB/second
NVMe SSD – read/write speed up to 3500MB/second

SSDs come in two form factors: The newer M.2 "gumstick" drives and the old school 2.5" size. The 2.5" drives always use the SATA protocol and attach via cables. The new M.2 form fact can use either NVMe protocol or the older SATA protocol. Ensure you only specify NVMe drives.

Each NVMe drive consumes 4 PCIe lanes, and Threadripper has 64 PCIe lanes driven from the on-board CPU controller, which means you can (depending on motherboard) install several M.2 NVMe drives specifically tuned for scan processing. I recommend three: Use one for your C:\, solely for the OS and apps; have one dedicated to storing the raw scan data; and a third for storing your Cyclone Register 360 projects. If you don't have 3 separate M.2 slots on your motherboard, get a cheap PCIe adapter that can hold several M.2 drives. I also recommend rounding the system out with one (or more) 4TB SATA SSDs for offloading scans as well. I also really like the new wave of USB-C external SSDs like the Samsung T5, which has read/write speeds of around 350 MBps, which is much faster than a Gigabit network (typically 60-90Mbps) for transferring data to other machines / servers.

Multiple drives are more efficient because Windows can multithread I/O across multiple devices, meaning you can read/write to all drives simultaneously. If you have everything on one drive, Windows will thrash about reading and writing to disk as the registration process pulls in the raw scan data and writes to the temp folder.

I personally don't recommend RAID, as RAID 0 puts your data at risk (if one drive fails all your data goes *poof*), and RAID 1 or 5 simply creates a level of data redundancy locally that is better backed up to a real corporate server on a regular basis.

Just as important as SSD configuration is the project folder storage configuration in Reg360. Ensure the project storage locations are specified to be on the fastest drive, and the temp folder on a separate but also fast drive (usually the C:\ drive dedicated to your OS/apps).

-Matt
- Matt

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Re: Ultimate Computer Setup for Processing RTC360 Data

Post by ericguizzetti » Fri May 17, 2019 9:51 pm

geomontgomery wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:17 pm
Abraham_142 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:57 am
dineshkimraj wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:09 pm
Good day all.

We have just bought a RTC360 laser scanner and have done some jobs using it.
While the fieldwork phase is very quick, processing can take a lot of time. Current import time is about 10-11 scans at highest quality with HDR imagery of about 1hr.

My current computer setup is:

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2950X 16-Core Processor
Radeon (TM) Pro WX 5100 Graphics card
64GB RAM
2x1TB SSD
1x2TB SATA

So my question is what is the ultimate computer setup for processing, unlimited budget.
Hi!!

There're some posts on the forum about this topic, and from my experience I have the same CPU as you and a Intel core i7 8700K, and Cyclone works better with hi clock speeds, if you have unlimited budget I definitely go for the Core i9-9980XE and 128 GB of RAM and for storage a RAID 0 with NvME

Or at least a i9 9900K, and there're some new MOBO that accept 128 GB of RAM, but the RAM is special and hard to find.
The special ram you mention is probably ECC memory, which doesn't afford any benefits over traditional RAM for the type of work we're doing. With that much ram I'm wondering what the effect would be by utilizing a ram disk instead of a conventional SSD would be. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_drive

I agree with your statement about high clock speeds, single core clock speed is definitely the biggest contributing factor to faster importing times with Cyclone. A good resource for anyone interested in this metric would be userbenchmark.org - since you can sort by exactly this factor: https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/

OP didn't mention in his original post but if he's using Cyclone REGISTER 360, it is indeed multi-threaded and will use more than one core during import, however I'm not sure if all 16 cores are being utilized from his processor. By running windows resource monitor during import you can inspect this pretty easily. I use a i7-8700k and see 100% utilization - not sure what 16 core threadripper would show.

From reading other threads on this topic on import speed and hardware where users would go as far as overclocking their processor to achieve better import speed - have not gone down this path myself but interesting to hear what lengths people are going to since import time = money.
I have dual Xeon's on my machine at home and Register 360 uses resources completely even. High speed is good but throttle with heat anyway. Core count will win over that any-day. Also run something like (4) Samsung Pro's on PCIe interface you get a multiplier effect as you by pass the 6gig bus limit.
Eric Guizzetti
DPR Construction
San Diego

#BLKRoadtrip
#RTC360
#RTCroadtrip

www.dpr.com

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Re: Ultimate Computer Setup for Processing RTC360 Data

Post by ericguizzetti » Fri May 17, 2019 9:56 pm

dineshkimraj wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:09 pm
Good day all.

We have just bought a RTC360 laser scanner and have done some jobs using it.
While the fieldwork phase is very quick, processing can take a lot of time. Current import time is about 10-11 scans at highest quality with HDR imagery of about 1hr.

My current computer setup is:

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2950X 16-Core Processor
Radeon (TM) Pro WX 5100 Graphics card
64GB RAM
2x1TB SSD
1x2TB SATA

So my question is what is the ultimate computer setup for processing, unlimited budget.
For the price right now the new Ryzen 16 core 32 thread looks great! You can use 5000 mhz ram and the only question is how many PCIe bus lanes will be available? I would skip the Radeon, and go with NVIDIA. Also you need to way more ram, best point cloud machine i have seen had 512gigs. My home machine has 128gigs and I use 100% of it when processing. As a guy that builds computers for a hobby to take advantage of speed you need really, really need good cooling. i9 processor are super famed for throttling with heat. Look to some good paste too, believe me it matters. If you can afford it go with hard piped water cooling. Cool the processor, graphics card and ram. Keep in mind you will need to flush your reservoir and re paste yearly.
Eric Guizzetti
DPR Construction
San Diego

#BLKRoadtrip
#RTC360
#RTCroadtrip

www.dpr.com

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Re: Ultimate Computer Setup for Processing RTC360 Data

Post by ericguizzetti » Fri May 17, 2019 10:21 pm

geomontgomery wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:17 pm
Abraham_142 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:57 am
dineshkimraj wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:09 pm
Good day all.

We have just bought a RTC360 laser scanner and have done some jobs using it.
While the fieldwork phase is very quick, processing can take a lot of time. Current import time is about 10-11 scans at highest quality with HDR imagery of about 1hr.

My current computer setup is:

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2950X 16-Core Processor
Radeon (TM) Pro WX 5100 Graphics card
64GB RAM
2x1TB SSD
1x2TB SATA

So my question is what is the ultimate computer setup for processing, unlimited budget.
Hi!!

There're some posts on the forum about this topic, and from my experience I have the same CPU as you and a Intel core i7 8700K, and Cyclone works better with hi clock speeds, if you have unlimited budget I definitely go for the Core i9-9980XE and 128 GB of RAM and for storage a RAID 0 with NvME

Or at least a i9 9900K, and there're some new MOBO that accept 128 GB of RAM, but the RAM is special and hard to find.
The special ram you mention is probably ECC memory, which doesn't afford any benefits over traditional RAM for the type of work we're doing. With that much ram I'm wondering what the effect would be by utilizing a ram disk instead of a conventional SSD would be. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_drive

I agree with your statement about high clock speeds, single core clock speed is definitely the biggest contributing factor to faster importing times with Cyclone. A good resource for anyone interested in this metric would be userbenchmark.org - since you can sort by exactly this factor: https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/

OP didn't mention in his original post but if he's using Cyclone REGISTER 360, it is indeed multi-threaded and will use more than one core during import, however I'm not sure if all 16 cores are being utilized from his processor. By running windows resource monitor during import you can inspect this pretty easily. I use a i7-8700k and see 100% utilization - not sure what 16 core threadripper would show.

From reading other threads on this topic on import speed and hardware where users would go as far as overclocking their processor to achieve better import speed - have not gone down this path myself but interesting to hear what lengths people are going to since import time = money.
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Eric Guizzetti
DPR Construction
San Diego

#BLKRoadtrip
#RTC360
#RTCroadtrip

www.dpr.com

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Re: Ultimate Computer Setup for Processing RTC360 Data

Post by geomontgomery » Fri May 17, 2019 10:47 pm

Hey Eric, thanks for sharing - we needed this. Can you share specifics on your hardware via DXDIAG or similar scoping apps? I think the laser scanning community as a whole could benefit by understanding your config and what can be accomplished realistically with present hardware.

Thanks again, great posts.

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