Need help in Buying (P40 vs RTC360 vs Faro S series)

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Chidanand
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Need help in Buying (P40 vs RTC360 vs Faro S series)

Post by Chidanand » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:16 am

Hi,

We are planning to purchase a laser scanner for the purpose of scanning the construction site for as built reality capture and compare with the designed model. It is quite a big project and long term (may be 2 to 3 years). We may need to capture the construction site at different phases of work for the entire duration of the project. In the first 6 months to one year it would be more of foundation and ground work. Second year and third year would be the building construction. We are planning to buy laser scanners stage wise which might be suited to particular requirement based on the construction stage.

First year: Capture the foundation work, accuracy should be reasonably good, in the first year we not face trouble in placing the camera at any any location, handling of scanning data

Second year and third year: it could be three time the scanning area of the first year. Multi floors. We may be face with constraints to place camera as well at some locations, number of scans will be more (3 or 4 times the first year), accuracy is more important here as compare to first year.


Looking for suggestions and anything else need to be considered.

Thanks in advance

Chidanand

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Re: Need help in Buying (P40 vs RTC360 vs Faro S series)

Post by LPaulCook » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:38 pm

I would look at work flows, accuracies and range of each instrument.

Here's the specs on the RTC360 at the end of this page linked here.
https://www.sccssurvey.co.uk/leica-rtc3 ... anner.html
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Re: Need help in Buying (P40 vs RTC360 vs Faro S series)

Post by jamesworrell » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:44 pm

Given you will have survey control available .. grids etc will no doubt already be marked .. the RTC with a few bipods and black and white tilt and turns will do the trick.

You can also get these Avery "industrial" A4 labels .. can print your black and whites on there and slab up on walls .. get your surveyor to grab the coordinates .. makes it a breeze.

Check out targetmill for printing ID's etc.

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Re: Need help in Buying (P40 vs RTC360 vs Faro S series)

Post by Chidanand » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:43 am

jamesworrell wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:44 pm
Given you will have survey control available .. grids etc will no doubt already be marked .. the RTC with a few bipods and black and white tilt and turns will do the trick.

You can also get these Avery "industrial" A4 labels .. can print your black and whites on there and slab up on walls .. get your surveyor to grab the coordinates .. makes it a breeze.

Check out targetmill for printing ID's etc.
Thank you for the suggestions

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Re: Need help in Buying (P40 vs RTC360 vs Faro S series)

Post by Chidanand » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:44 am

LPaulCook wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:38 pm
I would look at work flows, accuracies and range of each instrument.

Here's the specs on the RTC360 at the end of this page linked here.
https://www.sccssurvey.co.uk/leica-rtc3 ... anner.html
Thank you very much for the link

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Re: Need help in Buying (P40 vs RTC360 vs Faro S series)

Post by Ioannis » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:09 am

Τhe only drawback for the rtc360 is a scanner that it has no feedback yet. I remember last year when blk360 was came out that was full of promises but now seems bullshit.. if I were you I will wait to see if it works as they said..
Last edited by Ioannis on Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Need help in Buying (P40 vs RTC360 vs Faro S series)

Post by landmeterbeuckx » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:17 am

that's true, a lot of posts from vendors and the leica marketing machine.
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Re: Need help in Buying (P40 vs RTC360 vs Faro S series)

Post by pburrows145 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:41 am

Ioannis wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:09 am
Τhe only drawback forrtc360 is a scanner that it has no feedback yet. I remember last year when blk360 was came out that was full of promises but now seems bullshit.. if I were you I will wait to see if it works as they said..
Quite simply it's an amazing beast of an instrument and works exactly as intended. :D

Want me to get some real customer posts up here? Leave it with me. 8-)

I am bowled over by the reception of the product - it's already incredibly successful - I just wish we could deliver everyone's units asap.

Leave it with me and I will get some new owners to post their thoughts.

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Re: Need help in Buying (P40 vs RTC360 vs Faro S series)

Post by JGlauser » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:37 am

Hello!

A little about us..

We've been using the P40 intensively since release and have so far completed approx 1,500 RTC scans out in the real world. I would claim some expertise with Leica scanners and registration software. We've only used Faro on a handful of projects and have never used their software to complete processing works, I can't advise on those.

To reiterate your requirements you are looking to complete LiDAR capture of site right from the beginning of the construction phase to end and possibly beyond on this project.

Positional Consistency

A key issue with scanning a site multiple times over an extended period of time is maintaining internal positional consistency of your data. You will need to reference each scan back to a reference network of control to achieve this.

The P40 stands alone in this regard. With all 3 scanners we can setup reference objects (black and white targets or moulded spheres), establish their positions using traditional survey methods and capture their positions passively with the laser scanner thus deriving the scanner position via resection back in the office. Whilst valid, this method has some limitations specifically the range at which these targets may be observed, If you can only shoot a target that is 30m away, should you really be using data captured at 100m+ from this solution? Probably not, depends on the tolerances. The P40 has on board routines that allow you physically observe, name and store target positions on site. Furthermore it has the ability to complete formal survey grade resections upon these targets on site rather than waiting until you're back in the office to find out something is wrong. These target can be observed at double the range of the Faro or RTC.

Furthermore, the P40 actually has a laser plummet and gives the user the ability to setup over primary survey control, record and store instrument heights and do formal backsights to other control points. Again, all errors and positional values are given to the user in the field.

In terms of positioning the scanner on site coordinates the P40 is the optimal solution by far.

The above workflows are considered bet and braces and are certainly not optimal if you are concerned with scans/hour however, they are the safest available.

Tilt compensation.

In short, the ability for your data to be level to gravity. If the data isn't level, slab levelness/flatness and verticality checks can't be conducted accurately. Each scanner employs some form of tilt sensing/tilt compensation. I don't know about Faros compensation solution, because they havnt been doing it very long. Leica have had real time dual axis compensation in their kit for >10 years. It works, If I had to complete an engineering grade column verticality or floor flatness survey (Which i have done a number if times), I would sleep better at night if I had used the P40 as opposed to the other two solutions every day of the week.

Size and weight, site workflow, ease of use, quality of life.

Faro or RTC every single time. The units are lighter, have a more intuitive user interface, fit in backpacks. Again, cant speak to Faro but using our RTC is an absolute breeze. The software wasn't consistent during pre release testing. It's brilliant now. The VIS system really works, the tablet software is intuitive and I am 100% satisfied with our purchase. The data quality destroys the BLK, its a different grade of kit all together. The data flow to and from the tablet is seamless, you can photograph specific assets and tag them to scans to add meta data to your pointclouds in the field.

Colour

The colour takes 6+ minutes to capture with the P40, 1 minute with RTC, probably very quick with the faro. The P40 colour takes time because its capturing 270ish images. The resolution of the final pano is much higher than anything else but is prohibitively time consuming to capture. My recommendation, dont use colour unless you have to, If you have to, make sure your client is paying for it.


There's lots more I could go into but it comes down to this:

The P40 give you the best chance of getting the best data but it is heavier and not as slick to use in the field.

I'm consulting currently with a faro owner in the UK who will be doing construction phase as builts of a huge set of structures as they go up. They're buying a P40 for the job.

Good luck,

You can get me on jglauser@the-scan-station.com if you want to talk more.

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Re: Need help in Buying (P40 vs RTC360 vs Faro S series)

Post by Slewis33 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:54 pm

JGlauser absolutely nailed it...period.

I have worked in construction scanning with both Leica and FARO. Hardware wise the only advantage FARO has vs P40 is size. Software wise Leica blows them out of the water. A simple project I was working on last week with the FARO unit, Scene software simply would not cloud to cloud register no matter how I tried, got it into Cyclone and had it cloud to cloud in 10 minutes then registered to .01' on to project control BW targets.

RTC360 gives you the size factor over P40...but again JGlauser nailed the descriptions.

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