BLK360 wifi issues and a general pfffffttt! to leica

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Felix_the_Cat
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BLK360 wifi issues and a general pfffffttt! to leica

Post by Felix_the_Cat » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:32 pm

Well,

This is a frustration post for sure.

Leica now has upwards of $50K of our dough and we have not much to show for it.

I bought cyclone register and looked forward to diving into the user manual to get started. Anybody have a guess as to where I am going with this?

There is NO MANUAL. The help files are atrocious, its just a short list of randomly ordered concepts and keywords jumbled up in no particular order with virtually no usable information contained within. They should be ashamed. And when I contacted Leica to see if I missed something, all I got were folks with their hands out - oh! you want info? Want to know how to use this thing? PSYCH!!! PAY ME MORE. *click*

So I figured it out, and took way too long doing it. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed after all.

Now, I have not one but TWO of these little BLK360s sitting on my desk. And everything goes smoothly, until it comes time to connect in cyclone.

I am connected, I can ping the unit in a command window, but nothing shows up when I hit the find button in cyclone.

No help files. No support section. No manual. No joy.

They are cute. I want them to work, I really do.

Are you listening Leica? You are not the only game in town anymore. We have a couple of faros and a surphaser 100HSX and a bunch of trackers and we have never had any of these types of issues with any of the other hardware and software.

EXCEPT with the Leica 405. Same wonky wifi issues, only connects when it feels like it.

arrrrrgggghhhh.

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Re: BLK360 wifi issues and a general pfffffttt! to leica

Post by Rikore » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:44 pm

Felix,
One question, what Cyclone do you have. Register or Register 360? Both are different. Register is the big brother and is tough to learn unless you have people that are willing to help. As far as wifi goes, check with your IT staff and make sure they don't have some sort of blocking setup. If you need help with Cyclone, feel free to ask questions. PM me if you need. Willing to help.
Bruce

Felix_the_Cat
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Re: BLK360 wifi issues and a general pfffffttt! to leica

Post by Felix_the_Cat » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:19 pm

Hey Bruce,

I have regular cyclone register 9.1.6.

It was a struggle at first, but I am learning. My biggest issue is that my process doesn't auto recognize spherical targets importing into cyclone. And when I pick points manually and let cyclone find the spheres the found radii vary wildly, screwing up my registrations because the center points are off. I have discovered a better process using Geomagic, one that gives much better results than what I am seeing from Cyclone. I really want to give cyclone the ol' college try, being that we spent so much on it, maybe I just missed something. But it sure feels like a vax-11/780 in a Xeon world, just archaic. Shoulda got Polyworks, but I got a bum steer.

Been through the ringer with the IT guys. "There is no reason on our end that it Shouldn't work".

*sigh*.

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Re: BLK360 wifi issues and a general pfffffttt! to leica

Post by pburrows145 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:50 pm

Felix_the_Cat wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:32 pm
Well,

This is a frustration post for sure.

Leica now has upwards of $50K of our dough and we have not much to show for it.

I bought cyclone register and looked forward to diving into the user manual to get started. Anybody have a guess as to where I am going with this?

There is NO MANUAL. The help files are atrocious, its just a short list of randomly ordered concepts and keywords jumbled up in no particular order with virtually no usable information contained within. They should be ashamed. And when I contacted Leica to see if I missed something, all I got were folks with their hands out - oh! you want info? Want to know how to use this thing? PSYCH!!! PAY ME MORE. *click*

So I figured it out, and took way too long doing it. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed after all.

Now, I have not one but TWO of these little BLK360s sitting on my desk. And everything goes smoothly, until it comes time to connect in cyclone.

I am connected, I can ping the unit in a command window, but nothing shows up when I hit the find button in cyclone.

No help files. No support section. No manual. No joy.

They are cute. I want them to work, I really do.

Are you listening Leica? You are not the only game in town anymore. We have a couple of faros and a surphaser 100HSX and a bunch of trackers and we have never had any of these types of issues with any of the other hardware and software.

EXCEPT with the Leica 405. Same wonky wifi issues, only connects when it feels like it.

arrrrrgggghhhh.
Hi Felix,

Sorry to hear of some of the issues you have been experiencing. Can you confirm which software modules you have invested in?

Can I assume you have been on an official training course for Cyclone? If not, then I would highly recommend this. As part of the course you are given a copy of the official training notes. This is a step-by-step guide and is provided along with training databases for future reference. In addition, the US team also run online training sessions via webex - these can cover the basics, or be more workflow specific. I would be surprised if training was not included in any proposal to you - is this your first investment in Leica HDS products?

If you're starting out with REGISTER 360 (which you will have access to if you have CCP on Cyclone REGISTER), then there are helpful assistant panels embedded within the program which will get you started, plus a really handy quick-start guide. I will admit it is much easier to get started with REGISTER 360 than REGISTER - this was always the plan with REGISTER 360 - Speed, Scale and Simplicity.

With regards your connection issues and the BLK360, please ensure this issue is logged with your local support team so they can try and assist. I have not had any such connection issues on my machines - I assume you can connect to the iPad app?

You should note that we are releasing the BLK360 Data Manager tool in a few weeks which means you can download data to a desktop location without needing REG/REG360 open (and also change the instrument settings - resolution/exposure/HDR (on/off)). This is a great workflow for people who do not want to rely on an in-field app to control the scanner - you simply turn the instrument on and press the button to begin data collection.

Feel free to contact me if you are struggling to get the support you need. I know many of the support teams globally and we can together try and help resolve your issues. I would try REGISTER 360 and the quick-start guide if you want to get working quickly.

Kind Regards,
Paul

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Re: BLK360 wifi issues and a general pfffffttt! to leica

Post by pburrows145 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:56 pm

Felix_the_Cat wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:19 pm
Hey Bruce,

I have regular cyclone register 9.1.6.

It was a struggle at first, but I am learning. My biggest issue is that my process doesn't auto recognize spherical targets importing into cyclone. And when I pick points manually and let cyclone find the spheres the found radii vary wildly, screwing up my registrations because the center points are off. I have discovered a better process using Geomagic, one that gives much better results than what I am seeing from Cyclone. I really want to give cyclone the ol' college try, being that we spent so much on it, maybe I just missed something. But it sure feels like a vax-11/780 in a Xeon world, just archaic. Shoulda got Polyworks, but I got a bum steer.

Been through the ringer with the IT guys. "There is no reason on our end that it Shouldn't work".

*sigh*.
Note: You can fix the sphere size for target contraints in Cyclone - also, you need to ensure you have good coverage on the spheres (as with all registration solutions). Have you tried black and white targets - these can be found on import in REGISTER and REGISTER 360 and typically give better results in my personal opinion.

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Re: BLK360 wifi issues and a general pfffffttt! to leica

Post by jamesworrell » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:22 am

STOP! Don't use 9.1.6 for importing BLK data .. it doesn't work - need 9.2.

If you import and then try to export an E57, PTG, whatever .. you will get no data. It is an import bug and not an export bug. Lost one set of job data on that one.

My 2c - the BLK with the price rise is a deal breaker. Buy the M70: removable storage, no wifi to deal with for transfers, onscreen config changes and previews without having to lug an ipad around as well. Can't speak to data quality, I haven't used an M70, but the BLK is not quite what I was expecting - and you have surphaser - you'll know what I mean. I suspect we are about to send our first blk back - it's farked and we managed about 150 scans with it or something. Not sure exactly what - might have been knocked over and/or seems kind of "bricked" after the firmware update, albeit having completed dozens of scans after that - the support though is great - I can't fault that and I know it will be resolved - just a little frustrating when I have work for the instrument daily, priced and quoted for that instrument and instead we are sending 3 x C10's with two guys out to cover the same "ground" at a loss.

Just for interest - the service report hints at an SD card - so one would assume that is what is in there for storage .. shame you couldn't just pop it out for transfer and/or get a bigger card(s). Anyone want to do a BLK takedown on youtube?? ;-p

Another hot tip when importing - you need to CHECK EVERY SCAN - we are getting scans that don't import scan data (9.2). Re-import and it works - suspect it is some form of response timeout setting on the internal web server during the import? Maybe can't transfer fast enough over the wifi, wifi interference .. I will say something I said a while back .. cables just work .. please enable the stinking USB-C next to the battery as soon as you can guys .. and how many workstations have wifi? Had to buy a stinking USB wifi dongle. I hate dongles.

Great to hear about the data manager though .. fixes a few gripes I have on the workflow side of things and archive of raw/original scan data .. I hope.

Google for "cyclone basic user manual" .. first hit - covers a bit.

Registration is kind of an art form almost .. certainly need to do the field pick up right. We target everything. Even the BLK - we have had utter disasters with the promise of cloud-to-cloud - yeah you can get it to work, but it takes longer - put your targets up - saves time in the end.

Another edit .. with the auto-find targets on import .. don't do it .. I find they are a few mm's off (9.1.6).. doing it modelspace seems to get a better centre .. no idea why .. one would assume it would have been the same algorithm. Create a hotkey Ctrl-Shift-T or something for speed .. just click on the target, hotkey and punch in the ID. It is pretty fast.

Felix_the_Cat
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Re: BLK360 wifi issues and a general pfffffttt! to leica

Post by Felix_the_Cat » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:05 am

pburrows145 wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:50 pm

Hi Felix,

Sorry to hear of some of the issues you have been experiencing. Can you confirm which software modules you have invested in?

Can I assume you have been on an official training course for Cyclone? If not, then I would highly recommend this. As part of the course you are given a copy of the official training notes. This is a step-by-step guide and is provided along with training databases for future reference. In addition, the US team also run online training sessions via webex - these can cover the basics, or be more workflow specific. I would be surprised if training was not included in any proposal to you - is this your first investment in Leica HDS products?

If you're starting out with REGISTER 360 (which you will have access to if you have CCP on Cyclone REGISTER), then there are helpful assistant panels embedded within the program which will get you started, plus a really handy quick-start guide. I will admit it is much easier to get started with REGISTER 360 than REGISTER - this was always the plan with REGISTER 360 - Speed, Scale and Simplicity.

With regards your connection issues and the BLK360, please ensure this issue is logged with your local support team so they can try and assist. I have not had any such connection issues on my machines - I assume you can connect to the iPad app?

You should note that we are releasing the BLK360 Data Manager tool in a few weeks which means you can download data to a desktop location without needing REG/REG360 open (and also change the instrument settings - resolution/exposure/HDR (on/off)). This is a great workflow for people who do not want to rely on an in-field app to control the scanner - you simply turn the instrument on and press the button to begin data collection.

Feel free to contact me if you are struggling to get the support you need. I know many of the support teams globally and we can together try and help resolve your issues. I would try REGISTER 360 and the quick-start guide if you want to get working quickly.

Kind Regards,
Paul
Hi Paul,

Thank you kindly for replying to my post. I respect you and your willingness to help others as you can. You are in a difficult position, and handle yourself admirably at all times.

I am just going to address a few things, definitely things I wish I had known when I was thinking about buying some stuff.

For Cyclone Register, if you are not already well versed on the general ins and outs of scanning and registration you need to budget a bunch o' dough for training, and more importantly, time. Do not expect to be up and running in a hurry. I'm really not kidding, there are no help files. I called the (official) software dealer we procured it from and they sent me a link to a tutorial that looks like stolen Leica class notes on some Australian architectural firm's site. No kidding! Also, if you have never dealt with Leica before, it's like this:


youtu.be/ui84_vKpn5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui84_vKpn5s

On the plus side, the visual registration works just the way it should, and interface wonkiness aside it is a pleasure to use. Much better than Scene. It has gotten me out of some tight spots.

Some things about the BLK360 (understanding of course that I can't get at the data yet, so I can't comment on the scan quality)

There is NO WAY to get data off the thing other than via wifi. A typical space for us is 15 scans, say 3-4 Gb of data. That's an hour and a half just to transfer the data. Which you can't do directly.

There are only two ways to do this. Method 1: buy an ipad pro. buy register 360 and install it on the ipad pro. use ipad pro to control scanner. then use iTunes(!) to transfer the data to pc. Really!

Method 2: Buy register full. connect to scanner by wifi. use register to control scanner. download data via wifi with register. I am still not clear, but I believe that it gets processed at the same time, which means it might take even longer.

Just things to think about.

And while I understand the company line, being weeks away is no different than not existing.

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Re: BLK360 wifi issues and a general pfffffttt! to leica

Post by Scott » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:19 am

Felix_the_Cat wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:32 pm
Well,
This is a frustration post for sure.

arrrrrgggghhhh.
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Re: BLK360 wifi issues and a general pfffffttt! to leica

Post by steves01x » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:31 am

Not used the BLK but the wifi issue does seem to be a real nightmare.

I cant fault the help Leica support offer (apart from its only during normal working hours) the online chat etc is excellent. The training we got was also a good start over all for those that hadn't scanned etc before. There is also a limit on what a manual / official training can give you as there are so many different ways to put the scans together / depending how you scan each job.

I have found the easiest way to master the basics is scan your office and scan your house with both hds targets and then c2c. Play about with the data as those 2 places you will know the best and be able to spot errors very quickly!

Im not a fan of the spheres, i have used them with P40 / Cyclone and it does pick them up and register but not as good as the HDS targets.

Hang in there though with Cyclone, the amount of time you will save and the quality of the registration you will get well worth it!

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Re: BLK360 wifi issues and a general pfffffttt! to leica

Post by Rikore » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:56 am

Felix,
I know that you are frustrated to no end. I just encourage you to hang in there. I think some of the problems come from the perceptions that the BLK is point shoot and register. Everything runs smoothly. Really not the case. Leica has some great trainers here in the USA. They offer virtual training sessions for very reasonable costs. I also believe you will find a lot of great help here on the LSF site. I wish you the best as you move forward and hopefully your frustration level drops a lot. I have been through two HDS Universities, several Leica training weeks and been to HxGN Live three years running. All this to say, I still am learning new tricks every time. Hang in there.
Bruce

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