Guidelines for printed paper targets
- LPaulCook
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 485
- Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:42 pm
- 8
- Full Name: L Paul Cook
- Company Details: Land surveyor doing LiDAR
- Company Position Title: President
- Country: United States
- Linkedin Profile: Yes
- Location: Santa Barbara CA
- Has thanked: 47 times
- Been thanked: 44 times
- Contact:
Re: Guidelines for printed paper targets
I agree, Target Mill program is cheap and very simple to use.
I agree that shooting straight on at a checkard target often causes washout.
I also agree that targets should only be printed on a laser printer and never on an ink jet printer.
I add that if you can "see" where the center of the target is then just pick a point there and rename it the target name.
I've had good luck with targets I printed at FedEx. I even had the print a 3'x4' checked target on coragated pvc white 1/4" thich. I picked that big target up 700' away. The coordinates scanned matched my Leica T16 1" coordinates within 0.05'
or better.
I also use white tape to stick them directly on control points in the pavement or sidewalks. Saves shooting them up to the side of a wall etc.
Good luck!
I agree that shooting straight on at a checkard target often causes washout.
I also agree that targets should only be printed on a laser printer and never on an ink jet printer.
I add that if you can "see" where the center of the target is then just pick a point there and rename it the target name.
I've had good luck with targets I printed at FedEx. I even had the print a 3'x4' checked target on coragated pvc white 1/4" thich. I picked that big target up 700' away. The coordinates scanned matched my Leica T16 1" coordinates within 0.05'
or better.
I also use white tape to stick them directly on control points in the pavement or sidewalks. Saves shooting them up to the side of a wall etc.
Good luck!
L. Paul Cook, PLS
www.LPC3D.com
www.LPC3D.com
-
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 544
- Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:47 am
- 7
- Full Name: Martin Graner
- Company Details: PointCab GmbH
- Company Position Title: Research and Development
- Country: Germany
- Linkedin Profile: No
- Has thanked: 160 times
- Been thanked: 175 times
- Contact:
Re: Guidelines for printed paper targets
Yes the paper has an effect, since the paper is the "white part" of the target.Augusto 3D wrote: ↑Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:56 am I wonder if the paper has an inpact also.
I tried printing in black and white and I am getting mixed results.
Depending on the scanner it does, I have seen a lot of scans where the head on, incidence=0° targets are just white empty spots of reflectance.Augusto 3D wrote: ↑Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:56 am I thought that you wanted to scan targers at "straight on, or head on", as possible.
Are you guys saying that the laser is creating too much glare?
-
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 436
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:26 am
- 9
- Full Name: C-Augusto
- Company Details: 3d scanning
- Company Position Title: USA
- Country: US
- Has thanked: 115 times
- Been thanked: 30 times
Re: Guidelines for printed paper targets
hi guys,
I contacted Faro support, they told me to print using a laser printer etc but also recommended that I do a on-site comp.
I did the on-site compensation the scanner did indicate that it had improved based on the test but them I tried another target scan test.
Here is an image from scene of the scanner in relation to the wall with target (resolution 1/4 x1)
For some reason the problem persists. Notice how there is point missing along the horizontal line along the checkers where the white meets the black.
I tried to pick the center of the checker and there is no points to pick. The idea of offsetting the scanner to create an angle of incidence shouldn't make too much of a difference if this case and if you look at my image, the targets are not head on to the head of the scanner.
The only thing that I can think of is the paper I am using? maybe it is too thin and the laser it passing through?
I contacted Faro support, they told me to print using a laser printer etc but also recommended that I do a on-site comp.
I did the on-site compensation the scanner did indicate that it had improved based on the test but them I tried another target scan test.
Here is an image from scene of the scanner in relation to the wall with target (resolution 1/4 x1)
For some reason the problem persists. Notice how there is point missing along the horizontal line along the checkers where the white meets the black.
I tried to pick the center of the checker and there is no points to pick. The idea of offsetting the scanner to create an angle of incidence shouldn't make too much of a difference if this case and if you look at my image, the targets are not head on to the head of the scanner.
The only thing that I can think of is the paper I am using? maybe it is too thin and the laser it passing through?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 401
- Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:04 pm
- 15
- Full Name: SAttaya
- Company Details: Sev1Tech
- Company Position Title: Sr Software Analyst-RemoteSensingEngr
- Country: USA
- Linkedin Profile: No
- Has thanked: 127 times
- Been thanked: 17 times
Re: Guidelines for printed paper targets
I've often wondered if the white of the paper is the best color
just like the black can be too black.
which leads to what two (2) colors would be the best for
the laser scanner that you are using,
maybe the laser printer you are using...
maybe the material you printed on.
Anyone ever run tests with different colors (academic type?) ...
I seem to remember seeing color test scans some
years ago, pre-2005, where the distances returned were
materially changed based on the color. (it was a TOF
(No, I don't remember what was considered material way back then.)
...just wondering...
(I guess you'd have to have a rainbow of colors to scan at one time/distance, and do it for multiple distances,
with including black and no color on the ends and then maybe
purple
green
gold (can you tell I'm in NO,LA and Mardi Gras is tomorrow)
red, blue, yellow (additive colors)
orange
brown
OR
subtractive colors starting with Magenta, cyan, yellow
just like the black can be too black.
which leads to what two (2) colors would be the best for
the laser scanner that you are using,
maybe the laser printer you are using...
maybe the material you printed on.
Anyone ever run tests with different colors (academic type?) ...
I seem to remember seeing color test scans some
years ago, pre-2005, where the distances returned were
materially changed based on the color. (it was a TOF
(No, I don't remember what was considered material way back then.)
...just wondering...
(I guess you'd have to have a rainbow of colors to scan at one time/distance, and do it for multiple distances,
with including black and no color on the ends and then maybe
purple
green
gold (can you tell I'm in NO,LA and Mardi Gras is tomorrow)
red, blue, yellow (additive colors)
orange
brown
OR
subtractive colors starting with Magenta, cyan, yellow
-
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 436
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:26 am
- 9
- Full Name: C-Augusto
- Company Details: 3d scanning
- Company Position Title: USA
- Country: US
- Has thanked: 115 times
- Been thanked: 30 times
Re: Guidelines for printed paper targets
I am going to try "different" paper. Let's see.
Faro support think I am just crazy
Faro support think I am just crazy
- Leandre Robitaille
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 542
- Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:53 am
- 4
- Full Name: Leandre Robitaille
- Company Details: Cima+
- Company Position Title: Civil Technician - Surveyor
- Country: Canada
- Has thanked: 61 times
- Been thanked: 246 times
Re: Guidelines for printed paper targets
I just got into the paper printing game.
We usually purchase from a third party and they cost 2.5$ per 100mmx100mm sticker. We use around 3000 stickers a year. That's upwards of 7500$ a year in stickers.
We have super high quality laser printers at the office. I got these quality weatherproof vynils labels from Uline. Tomorow I will print them out and test various colors. The black laser print stays on the label extremely well and overall quality is great. However those labels DO NOT work on normal laser printers, they will get stuck and jam, from the 5 printers we tried them on (even when selecting Label in settings) only the 20k$ printer at my office can print on them flawlessly.
I got some templates done in autocad for testing I will do tomorrow, I will be clashing a array of 100x100mm stickers, from our old provider and different paper types as well, also various color prints. From distances varying from 9m to 25m, at 1m intervals using 1/4 (faro) scan settings. Also will do 1/2 scans at the 20-25m range I will keep everyone updated, so far I am extremely impressed with the Uline weatherproof label quality, it is not very ''reflective'', has a nice Mate finish.
I am somewhat committed in getting this printer paper target problem solved.
Also extra pro tip. Even if the label has glue in the back, make sure to use silicone glue on the corners. Sometimes even spread silicone in the back if you are sticking on concrete. This is what we use and its cheap, awesome and easy to clean if they ever need to be removed ; https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/ge-s ... l#store=96
We usually purchase from a third party and they cost 2.5$ per 100mmx100mm sticker. We use around 3000 stickers a year. That's upwards of 7500$ a year in stickers.
We have super high quality laser printers at the office. I got these quality weatherproof vynils labels from Uline. Tomorow I will print them out and test various colors. The black laser print stays on the label extremely well and overall quality is great. However those labels DO NOT work on normal laser printers, they will get stuck and jam, from the 5 printers we tried them on (even when selecting Label in settings) only the 20k$ printer at my office can print on them flawlessly.
I got some templates done in autocad for testing I will do tomorrow, I will be clashing a array of 100x100mm stickers, from our old provider and different paper types as well, also various color prints. From distances varying from 9m to 25m, at 1m intervals using 1/4 (faro) scan settings. Also will do 1/2 scans at the 20-25m range I will keep everyone updated, so far I am extremely impressed with the Uline weatherproof label quality, it is not very ''reflective'', has a nice Mate finish.
I am somewhat committed in getting this printer paper target problem solved.
Also extra pro tip. Even if the label has glue in the back, make sure to use silicone glue on the corners. Sometimes even spread silicone in the back if you are sticking on concrete. This is what we use and its cheap, awesome and easy to clean if they ever need to be removed ; https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/ge-s ... l#store=96
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 436
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:26 am
- 9
- Full Name: C-Augusto
- Company Details: 3d scanning
- Company Position Title: USA
- Country: US
- Has thanked: 115 times
- Been thanked: 30 times
Re: Guidelines for printed paper targets
the part that is driving me crazy is the missing points on the horizontal edges.
I tried new paper (heavier less translucent) and I am having the same thing happen. I am printing these on a brother color laser - in B/W.
Its a new printer I may add.
Let us know about your test.
I tried new paper (heavier less translucent) and I am having the same thing happen. I am printing these on a brother color laser - in B/W.
Its a new printer I may add.
Let us know about your test.
-
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 436
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:26 am
- 9
- Full Name: C-Augusto
- Company Details: 3d scanning
- Company Position Title: USA
- Country: US
- Has thanked: 115 times
- Been thanked: 30 times
Re: Guidelines for printed paper targets
Can someone please post a image of a scan with a target that was properly captured, or even the scan file?
- LPaulCook
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 485
- Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:42 pm
- 8
- Full Name: L Paul Cook
- Company Details: Land surveyor doing LiDAR
- Company Position Title: President
- Country: United States
- Linkedin Profile: Yes
- Location: Santa Barbara CA
- Has thanked: 47 times
- Been thanked: 44 times
- Contact:
Re: Guidelines for printed paper targets
I use FARO Focus scanners, the S350 and X330 and scan checkered targets often with no issues at all.
Here are some images of one such target that is 11"x17". I bought peel and stick bond paper from Uline.com and print checkered targets that I designed using the PaperMill software. Printed on a rather old color laser printer. Target is "black and white" no color. The paper is white. The targets are stuck on the back of aluminum parking signs that are a little larger than the paper.
I scanned this target pretty much straight on from about 75' away.
Here's some images of that target in SCENE. Hope this is helpful.
Here are some images of one such target that is 11"x17". I bought peel and stick bond paper from Uline.com and print checkered targets that I designed using the PaperMill software. Printed on a rather old color laser printer. Target is "black and white" no color. The paper is white. The targets are stuck on the back of aluminum parking signs that are a little larger than the paper.
I scanned this target pretty much straight on from about 75' away.
Here's some images of that target in SCENE. Hope this is helpful.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
L. Paul Cook, PLS
www.LPC3D.com
www.LPC3D.com
-
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 436
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:26 am
- 9
- Full Name: C-Augusto
- Company Details: 3d scanning
- Company Position Title: USA
- Country: US
- Has thanked: 115 times
- Been thanked: 30 times
Re: Guidelines for printed paper targets
Paul, how are you getting such a "nice" view of the points so up close in scene?