LFM Modeller + clash detection LFM VS Navisworks

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mhuynh1031
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LFM Modeller + clash detection LFM VS Navisworks

Post by mhuynh1031 »

Little background about myself: I’m a junior-ish Piping designer trying to improve myself and our workflow in our department.

Anyone familiar with the modeller software with LFM ? I looked online and according to the brochure, there doesn’t seem to be a plug in connection to plant 3D ? I’m not sure since I have never used the software.

We currently have to model existing for stress analysis. My company is trying to give our stress guys PCF files to import into Caesar for their stress model. Sometimes it doesn’t work so we give them ISOs from plant 3D.

I’m trying to increase productivity since modelling existing with structure/pipe measurements and tie ins is very time consuming.

As per the clash detection part, we have one license of LFM clash detection but I assume it will be more expensive then Navisworks manage, not sure about this.

We currently ask for the surveyor to provide us recap files after they give us the LFD or we just make it our selves via gateway to e57 to recap if the ZFS files do not import to recap.

We use the embedded NWD Recap in the NWD with our plant 3D model for model reviews and as a final deliverable so the contractor can see during construction.

It seems like you can do Navisworks clash defection with recap ? Again, haven’t used the software. I’m not sure what is better in terms of cost to benefit.

Thanks all !



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Mokeefe
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Re: LFM Modeller + clash detection LFM VS Navisworks

Post by Mokeefe »

If you do get stuck with having to create an As-built model. Edgewise might help (quick overview- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma4IyaWR4ko). It handles piping really quickly, and is pretty good for structure depending on the project.

The other piece is running clash detection in Navisworks. I have a way to run clash detection of a point cloud against geometry in Navisworks :idea: . Is that helpful? DM me if you want to talk more.

Good luck!
mhuynh1031
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Re: LFM Modeller + clash detection LFM VS Navisworks

Post by mhuynh1031 »

Hi Mark,

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, my office is not looking for software beyond Aveva.

We currently do not have an issue modelling existing but it can be very time consuming. I know edgewise can recognize existing, but we try not to model existing too much. To clarify, i'm not looking for so much a how to, but more of x1 vs x2. I am looking for user experiences with LFM modeller, LFM clash detection and Navisworks Manage Clash detection.


Our workflow:
  • Turn LFD to RCP for visual clash and NWD embedded laser scan for model reviews via recap pro
  • Using LFM Server and AutoCAD Plant 3D to design and model as per project scope
  • Model some existing runs to stress analysis for applicable piping via PCF to Caesar II
  • Use Navisworks NWD with merged RCP for visual clash check
  • Produce Isometrics/Orthos deliverables
  • P&ID are dumb and are manually cadded (not part of AutoCAD Plant 3D P&ID)

Questions
  • Can you link LFM modeller in AutoCAD Plant 3D like LFM server?
  • Has any1 tried to LFM modeller in bubble view/in volumes?
  • If so, how much time it save you VS measuring and using tie-ins in LFM server?
  • How did you find LFM clash detection VS Navisworks Manage clash detection?
  • Is it even worth doing clash detection against the existing for brownfield work when the area is very congested?
Graham
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Re: LFM Modeller + clash detection LFM VS Navisworks

Post by Graham »

I recommned speaking with LFM Support as there has been a lot of new work on clash reporting and management in the latest LFM builds.
mhuynh1031
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Re: LFM Modeller + clash detection LFM VS Navisworks

Post by mhuynh1031 »

Since there as been no replies to answer my question, I will answer my own

Can you link LFM modeller in AutoCAD Plant 3D like LFM server?
  • not sure on this one, apparently, LFM modeller hasn't updated or invested in that software
Has any1 tried to LFM modeller in bubble view/in volumes?
  • not sure on this one, apparently, LFM modeller hasn't updated or invested in that software
If so, how much time it save you VS measuring and using tie-ins in LFM server?
not sure on this one, apparently, LFM modeller hasn't updated or invested in that software[/list]

is it even worth doing clash detection against the existing for brownfield work when the area is very congested?
  • Clash detection is good, but it does require filtering for brown fieldwork. If you create a demo volume, you are introducing human error. I think it is best to run hard clash detection and approve what is not applicable. In the end, it is a visual check
*UPDATE - MARCH 14, 2020*
How did you find LFM clash detection VS Navisworks Manage clash detection?
  • LFM Clash detection is good during detail engineering. It should not be used for project clash detection. Navisworks manage is better for clash reporting, NWD with laser scan embedded and saved viewports with clashes for other disciplines to review.
*UPDATE - MARCH 14, 2020*
  • Currently testing pointfuse software. Clash detection via raw data is not very efficient. The NWD sizes are huge,can be 50 GB, but also, it requires too much juice. So the theory is, Pointfuse converts the raw scan data to meshes. Meshes are supports to be smaller, 40GB vs 400 MB, and now we can run a hard clash in Navis works
*UPDATE - MARCH 14, 2020*
Workflow theory

RCP > Pointfuce IFC.
Then, Merge into NWF with model, and run clash detection.

I will post here on my journey on clash detection workflow i guess ... doesnt seem to be much information out there ...
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JenniC
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Re: LFM Modeller + clash detection LFM VS Navisworks

Post by JenniC »

Hi Minh,

You may be interested to know about AVEVA LFM Server 5.3 which was released very recently. Previous releases have introduced the ability to import an extended range of 3D model files (including .ifc and .fbx) directly into AVEVA LFM Server and clash them against the laser data without the need to connect to a CAD package.

The 5.3 release builds on these capabilities even further with the ability to report .csv, .xlsx and .pdf reports directly from the Clash Manager for access by non-LFM Server users.

You can find this latest release on our Downloads page here - https://www.aveva.com/en/Services_and_S ... FM-Support along with the release notes for this version. You can also find a video of our release webinar here - https://lfmproducts.blob.core.windows.n ... ebinar.mp4

In case you are not familiar with the updated User Interface which was introduced in AVEVA LFM Server 5.0 you can find a detailed FAQ here - https://lfmproducts.blob.core.windows.n ... Q%20v1.pdf

If you need any further information please feel free to contact us directly at [email protected].

Kind regards,
Jenni Copple
Senior ApplicationsConsultant
AVEVA LFM
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