Best all-round laserscanner

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JarneB
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Best all-round laserscanner

Post by JarneB »

Hey everyone,

I'm curious about your thoughts on the best all-round laser scanner for quick and accurate scanning. It should deliver proper accuracy for BIM modeling, flatness analysis, scanning of window openings, and more. Additionally, there should be no elevation inaccuracies of more than 2mm between the zero-level and other parts of the building.

Thanks!
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Re: Best all-round laserscanner

Post by smacl »

JarneB wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:51 am Hey everyone,

I'm curious about your thoughts on the best all-round laser scanner for quick and accurate scanning. It should deliver proper accuracy for BIM modeling, flatness analysis, scanning of window openings, and more. Additionally, there should be no elevation inaccuracies of more than 2mm between the zero-level and other parts of the building.

Thanks!
Jarne
2mm error in level from scanning across multiple setups for different parts of a building is very difficult to achieve and to prove. You'd really need to run a level network between your occupied scanner positions with some additional redundant check points for this type of control. You basically are liable to accumulate error from a number of sources (setup, dis-levelment, registration, instrument accuracy, atmospherics, etc..) each time you move the scanner to a new location, hence the need to establish strong control in advance. You'll also need a scanner with a proper dual axis compensator. Instruments to look at would be Riegl vz600i or Leica P40 along with an experienced surveyor to use them.
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Re: Best all-round laserscanner

Post by JarneB »

Thanks for your response Shane!

If we were to tolerate an elevation inaccuracy of up to 5 mm, do you think the Faro S70 could be a viable option with proper control measures in place? Additionally, considering the importance of speed, I'm concerned that the scanning process might be slower with the P40. What are your thoughts on this?
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Re: Best all-round laserscanner

Post by cesaralmeida »

smacl wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:24 am
JarneB wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:51 am Hey everyone,

I'm curious about your thoughts on the best all-round laser scanner for quick and accurate scanning. It should deliver proper accuracy for BIM modeling, flatness analysis, scanning of window openings, and more. Additionally, there should be no elevation inaccuracies of more than 2mm between the zero-level and other parts of the building.

Thanks!
Jarne
2mm error in level from scanning across multiple setups for different parts of a building is very difficult to achieve and to prove. You'd really need to run a level network between your occupied scanner positions with some additional redundant check points for this type of control. You basically are liable to accumulate error from a number of sources (setup, dis-levelment, registration, instrument accuracy, atmospherics, etc..) each time you move the scanner to a new location, hence the need to establish strong control in advance. You'll also need a scanner with a proper dual axis compensator. Instruments to look at would be Riegl vz600i or Leica P40 along with an experienced surveyor to use them.
Hey mate...
things change..what if I told you the Trimble X7 and X9 (which are IMU based, as you know), have better levelling accuracy than the X12, which has a dual axis compensator... :o :o yeah... I know, right??!...
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Re: Best all-round laserscanner

Post by smacl »

cesaralmeida wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 11:07 amHey mate...
things change..what if I told you the Trimble X7 and X9 (which are IMU based, as you know), have better levelling accuracy than the X12, which has a dual axis compensator... :o :o yeah... I know, right??!...
Like anything related to claims about survey accuracy, somebody tells me something and the first thing I ask for is the supporting well controlled study and datasets that backs up that claim ;)

Not implying what you say about the X7, X9 and X12 isn't the case, just that for anyone looking at acquiring scanning equipment they need to dig deep when it comes to accuracy claims.
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Re: Best all-round laserscanner

Post by smacl »

JarneB wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:39 am Thanks for your response Shane!

If we were to tolerate an elevation inaccuracy of up to 5 mm, do you think the Faro S70 could be a viable option with proper control measures in place? Additionally, considering the importance of speed, I'm concerned that the scanning process might be slower with the P40. What are your thoughts on this?
Yep, P40 is heavy and getting old at this point, not ideal where productivity is your main goal across a lot of setups. My suggestion is rather than looking for instrument recommendations you set up some control on a site you have easy access to that is typical of what you're likely to be measuring, scan it or get it scanned with the different instruments that you're considering, and check the results against additional known points. At the end of the day, failing to meet accuracy specs for your client is your responsibility and what we see on manufacturer instrument specifications can be very misleading. It is a worthwhile exercise to see what accuracy you can achieve with a given instrument on a typical site over multiple setups with your own envisaged control and QA procedures.

So much comes back to QA in terms of demonstrating accuracy requirements have been met and this is the area which separates the surveying or scanning professional from those who simply know which buttons to press on the equipment and software.
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Re: Best all-round laserscanner

Post by cesaralmeida »

smacl wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:08 am
cesaralmeida wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 11:07 amHey mate...
things change..what if I told you the Trimble X7 and X9 (which are IMU based, as you know), have better levelling accuracy than the X12, which has a dual axis compensator... :o :o yeah... I know, right??!...
Like anything related to claims about survey accuracy, somebody tells me something and the first thing I ask for is the supporting well controlled study and datasets that backs up that claim ;)

Not implying what you say about the X7, X9 and X12 isn't the case, just that for anyone looking at acquiring scanning equipment they need to dig deep when it comes to accuracy claims.
I know you are not implying. we go back, you know I'm not in the habit of misleading or doing false claims.
datasets\studies, independent reviews? how much free disk space do you have? :-) it's all good, if you have the capacity to review everything. 8-) 8-) I would ask in return for the same: where are your controlled studies and datasets to support the accuracy on those other devices you mentioned? Please share, so I can review. :twisted:

I will also add, that unlike others, when Trimble makes a scanner with a sensor to measure inclination, the software that then processes and register that data is able to perfectly understand and apply those values from day 1. Not, you know... 6 years after a scanner has been launched like some others I'm aware of. :D :D
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Re: Best all-round laserscanner

Post by Jamesrye »

You could use an RTC360 with levelled control points shot in with a 1" total station. But a P40 for your specific use case would be ideal.
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Re: Best all-round laserscanner

Post by smacl »

cesaralmeida wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:22 amwhere are your controlled studies and datasets to support the accuracy on those other devices you mentioned? Please share, so I can review.
Very little in the way of independent comparative analysis between scanners from different manufacturers out there. This one goes back a few years but is one of the better ones; https://www.concrete.org/publications/g ... D=51714487 Note that being American, the results are in inches and you need to multiply by 0.039 to get to millimetres. P40 comes out very well for reduced ground levels, which is where the compensators / inclinometers come into play. The study predates the Trimble X series so no idea how they would stack up.

The point here is that this is the type of comparative information between manufacturers is what threads like this are looking for but it is surprisingly sparse. Asking for a scanner recommendation in the absence of this kind of information to back it up is not a great way of making a decision for what could be a major purchase for many. For this reason, my response in these threads is that people carry out their own testing based on their own requirements.
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Re: Best all-round laserscanner

Post by cesaralmeida »

smacl wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 10:28 am
cesaralmeida wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:22 amwhere are your controlled studies and datasets to support the accuracy on those other devices you mentioned? Please share, so I can review.
Very little in the way of independent comparative analysis between scanners from different manufacturers out there. This one goes back a few years but is one of the better ones; https://www.concrete.org/publications/g ... D=51714487 Note that being American, the results are in inches and you need to multiply by 0.039 to get to millimetres. P40 comes out very well for reduced ground levels, which is where the compensators / inclinometers come into play. The study predates the Trimble X series so no idea how they would stack up.

The point here is that this is the type of comparative information between manufacturers is what threads like this are looking for but it is surprisingly sparse. Asking for a scanner recommendation in the absence of this kind of information to back it up is not a great way of making a decision for what could be a major purchase for many. For this reason, my response in these threads is that people carry out their own testing based on their own requirements.
On that, unsurprinsingly, I thoroughly agree with you. 👍👍 test before invest. Trust but verify. Sorry for winding up you a bit, its just me being me. ;)
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