Comparison Geoslam Zeb Horizon, Navvis VLX, Kaarta Stencil 2 and Gexcel Heron

To chat about anything else.
max72
V.I.P Member
V.I.P Member
Posts: 792
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:32 pm
8
Full Name: Massimo De Marchi
Company Details: Massimo De Marchi
Company Position Title: freelancer
Country: Italy
Skype Name: massimo_de_marchi
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 22 times
Contact:

Re: Comparison Geoslam Zeb Horizon, Navvis VLX, Kaarta Stencil 2 and Gexcel Heron

Post by max72 »

I have a Faro and a Horizon, so I understand your idea..
I'll write my opinions, related to the two scanners I have, the tools I use and my main activities (mainly building survey).
While if I would have to select a single tool to do all my jobs a TLS would be the way to go, both instruments have strength and weaknesses.
I heavily rely on pointcab, and the workflow affects the opinion on the different tools.
When doing facades, mainly of old buildings, my Faro is way better. The details obtained from Pointcab are very crisp, nothing to compare with Horizon. If I need more details I add photogrammetry.
Another aspect is the quality of the intensity data. For instance manholes are more evident with Faro (using Pointcab and intensity).
On the other hand the Horizon is much faster, and brings excellent results in almost all the other situations I encounter. In many situations, both inside and outside of a building the data from Horizon is perfect, and while it's noisier it's perfect for the task, and a Faro wouldn't add much.
Another plus is Horizon is very portable, and you can access difficult to reach areas, as long as you advance slowly and are careful.
I use Hub, and while it works really well sometimes registering the scans skew them (I guess it's a bug..). Now there is Connect that offers pointcloud filtering and some other things.
Cross checking raw and filtered data, and using Pointcab I cannot see an advantage in all this filtering, besides an aesthetic effect. To be fair, I prefer the raw data, and decide what to take. I dropped filtering completely.
With my Faro I use Scantra as a registration tool, and the workflow is very fast and reliable. Nonetheless I now use Horizon as the primary tool, and the Faro for special situations.
Considering the fast setup, and the great range, I use the Horizon as a topographic tool combined with my GPS.
If I need to exploit more informations from the pointcloud I use Rhino with Veesus plugin.
Another thing to consider in my opinion:
Geoslam support is excellent (even if I'm not sure they understood the cloud combine skew bug).
Scantra support is excellent.
Pointcab support is excellent.
Veesus support is excellent, but I'm a reseller so take it with a grain of salt.

Massimo
ing. Massimo De Marchi - +39 347 32 17 049 - www.studiodemarchi.net
User avatar
GeomDaniloMammarella
I have made <0 posts
I have made <0 posts
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:54 am
Full Name: Danilo Mammarella
Company Details: Technical Office
Company Position Title: CEO
Country: Italia
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Comparison Geoslam Zeb Horizon, Navvis VLX, Kaarta Stencil 2 and Gexcel Heron

Post by GeomDaniloMammarella »

max72 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:50 pm I have a Faro and a Horizon, so I understand your idea..
I'll write my opinions, related to the two scanners I have, the tools I use and my main activities (mainly building survey).
While if I would have to select a single tool to do all my jobs a TLS would be the way to go, both instruments have strength and weaknesses.
I heavily rely on pointcab, and the workflow affects the opinion on the different tools.
When doing facades, mainly of old buildings, my Faro is way better. The details obtained from Pointcab are very crisp, nothing to compare with Horizon. If I need more details I add photogrammetry.
Another aspect is the quality of the intensity data. For instance manholes are more evident with Faro (using Pointcab and intensity).
On the other hand the Horizon is much faster, and brings excellent results in almost all the other situations I encounter. In many situations, both inside and outside of a building the data from Horizon is perfect, and while it's noisier it's perfect for the task, and a Faro wouldn't add much.
Another plus is Horizon is very portable, and you can access difficult to reach areas, as long as you advance slowly and are careful.
I use Hub, and while it works really well sometimes registering the scans skew them (I guess it's a bug..). Now there is Connect that offers pointcloud filtering and some other things.
Cross checking raw and filtered data, and using Pointcab I cannot see an advantage in all this filtering, besides an aesthetic effect. To be fair, I prefer the raw data, and decide what to take. I dropped filtering completely.
With my Faro I use Scantra as a registration tool, and the workflow is very fast and reliable. Nonetheless I now use Horizon as the primary tool, and the Faro for special situations.
Considering the fast setup, and the great range, I use the Horizon as a topographic tool combined with my GPS.
If I need to exploit more informations from the pointcloud I use Rhino with Veesus plugin.
Another thing to consider in my opinion:
Geoslam support is excellent (even if I'm not sure they understood the cloud combine skew bug).
Scantra support is excellent.
Pointcab support is excellent.
Veesus support is excellent, but I'm a reseller so take it with a grain of salt.

Massimo
Hi Massimo,
Thank You very much for your post! The day before yesterday I've seen here some of your posts and a minute after I was on your site..
I promise to me to disturb you with a phone call when I've got ten minutes. And now I've to say thank you for your precious advices!
I hope to call you soon ( pheraps on saturday :D )

Danilo
User avatar
GeomDaniloMammarella
I have made <0 posts
I have made <0 posts
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:54 am
Full Name: Danilo Mammarella
Company Details: Technical Office
Company Position Title: CEO
Country: Italia
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Comparison Geoslam Zeb Horizon, Navvis VLX, Kaarta Stencil 2 and Gexcel Heron

Post by GeomDaniloMammarella »

GeomDaniloMammarella wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:33 pm
jsteinert wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:35 pm We have been using BLIK2G0 and VLX for over a year. Both have advantages and limitations.
From our experience the 2Go works very well with RTC/BLK360 and LGS provides 270 pano waypoints. VLX imagery is excellent and filtering from pointcloud processing is great.
However the 2Go image quality is limited and pointcloud is not very dense. NavVis processing costs per SF, quite slow processing, and alignment tools aren't great.

Even after considering cost of instrument, time to process, overall quality, and cost of processing... I still havent seen a solution from any MLS that provides an RCP with panos included from any mobile solution.
Why alignment tools aren't great? Have you got some alignment problem in your experience?
Wait a moment.. what you mean when you say "NavVis processing costs per SquareFeet" ?
Do you mean that you pay the NavVis software and than you pay a quote per SF to process data??
Please tell me that I misunderstood

I love to be free from any subscription etc if it's possible.. I'm not very old but I begin with my eyes on a theodolite, and a piece of paper and a pen in the other hand.
A software is only a beautiful and useful calculator from my point of view, you should not pay to calc. You should pay to buy the calculator. That's only my personal opinion..

I hope that I misunderstood about payment per SF

Danilo
max72
V.I.P Member
V.I.P Member
Posts: 792
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:32 pm
8
Full Name: Massimo De Marchi
Company Details: Massimo De Marchi
Company Position Title: freelancer
Country: Italy
Skype Name: massimo_de_marchi
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 22 times
Contact:

Re: Comparison Geoslam Zeb Horizon, Navvis VLX, Kaarta Stencil 2 and Gexcel Heron

Post by max72 »

GeomDaniloMammarella wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:59 pm
Hi Massimo,
Thank You very much for your post! The day before yesterday I've seen here some of your posts and a minute after I was on your site..
I promise to me to disturb you with a phone call when I've got ten minutes. And now I've to say thank you for your precious advices!
I hope to call you soon ( pheraps on saturday :D )

Danilo
Anytime! :-)

Cheers,
Massimo
ing. Massimo De Marchi - +39 347 32 17 049 - www.studiodemarchi.net
joshhillgeoslam
I have made 10-20 posts
I have made 10-20 posts
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:20 am
Full Name: Josh Hill
Company Details: GeoSLAM
Company Position Title: Product Marketing Specialist
Country: UK
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Comparison Geoslam Zeb Horizon, Navvis VLX, Kaarta Stencil 2 and Gexcel Heron

Post by joshhillgeoslam »

Hi Danilo

Please allow me to contribute some information from a GeoSLAM point of view.

At GeoSLAM, we've made some really big leaps forward in 2021, including enhancements to our SLAM algorithm, launching a new software platform (GeoSLAM Connect) which comes as standard with ay ZEB product, new processing and analysis tools and filters, and a workflow library to automate results such as change detection and automatic floorplan detection. You just select which workflow you want to run and the software will do the rest. We are set to launch the next version of Connect (2.1) very soon and included in this release will be a new noise filter and outlier removal tool. These filters will be applied automatically to any dataset during the processing stage, which will result in very clean and clear point clouds.

Now that this feature is ready to be released, we will also be applying this to all of the sample datasets on our website in order for any existing or potential customers to see the full capabilities of our systems and software.

We also published an accuracy report last year evaluating the accuracy results of the ZEB Horizon compared with other similar LiDAR systems. Here is the link if you would like to read it: https://geoslam.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... Report.pdf

If you would like more information about GeoSLAM Connect and our SLAM algorithm (GeoSLAM Beam), please click on this link: https://geoslam.com/solutions/connect/

For reference, the cost of the ZEB Horizon is around £39,000 and this includes hardware, a data processing licence for GeoSLAM Connect and a year's worth of our after sales package GeoSLAM Care (this includes hardware warranty, remote software support and software updates). The Connect licence is perpetual and there is no extra charge for data storage or processing so the return of investment is usually very fast.

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to message me or email any member of the GeoSLAM Team.

Kind regards
Josh
Last edited by joshhillgeoslam on Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
jsteinert
I have made 30-40 posts
I have made 30-40 posts
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:43 pm
2
Full Name: joshua steinert
Company Details: pb2 architecture + engineering
Company Position Title: Graphics Manager
Country: USA
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Comparison Geoslam Zeb Horizon, Navvis VLX, Kaarta Stencil 2 and Gexcel Heron

Post by jsteinert »

GeomDaniloMammarella wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:33 pm
jsteinert wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:35 pm We have been using BLIK2G0 and VLX for over a year. Both have advantages and limitations.
From our experience the 2Go works very well with RTC/BLK360 and LGS provides 270 pano waypoints. VLX imagery is excellent and filtering from pointcloud processing is great.
However the 2Go image quality is limited and pointcloud is not very dense. NavVis processing costs per SF, quite slow processing, and alignment tools aren't great.

Even after considering cost of instrument, time to process, overall quality, and cost of processing... I still havent seen a solution from any MLS that provides an RCP with panos included from any mobile solution.
Why alignment tools aren't great? Have you got some alignment problem in your experience?
for navvis alignment you cannot correct tilt, and any rotational correction is limited to .5 degree increments.
jsteinert
I have made 30-40 posts
I have made 30-40 posts
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:43 pm
2
Full Name: joshua steinert
Company Details: pb2 architecture + engineering
Company Position Title: Graphics Manager
Country: USA
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Comparison Geoslam Zeb Horizon, Navvis VLX, Kaarta Stencil 2 and Gexcel Heron

Post by jsteinert »

GeomDaniloMammarella wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:21 pm
GeomDaniloMammarella wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:33 pm
jsteinert wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:35 pm We have been using BLIK2G0 and VLX for over a year. Both have advantages and limitations.
From our experience the 2Go works very well with RTC/BLK360 and LGS provides 270 pano waypoints. VLX imagery is excellent and filtering from pointcloud processing is great.
However the 2Go image quality is limited and pointcloud is not very dense. NavVis processing costs per SF, quite slow processing, and alignment tools aren't great.

Even after considering cost of instrument, time to process, overall quality, and cost of processing... I still havent seen a solution from any MLS that provides an RCP with panos included from any mobile solution.
Why alignment tools aren't great? Have you got some alignment problem in your experience?
Wait a moment.. what you mean when you say "NavVis processing costs per SquareFeet" ?
Do you mean that you pay the NavVis software and than you pay a quote per SF to process data??
Please tell me that I misunderstood

I love to be free from any subscription etc if it's possible.. I'm not very old but I begin with my eyes on a theodolite, and a piece of paper and a pen in the other hand.
A software is only a beautiful and useful calculator from my point of view, you should not pay to calc. You should pay to buy the calculator. That's only my personal opinion..

I hope that I misunderstood about payment per SF

Danilo
NavVis processing is indeed a pay to process/host utility. It used to be based on SF, but now is based on pano count.
User avatar
landmeterbeuckx
V.I.P Member
V.I.P Member
Posts: 1063
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 5:19 pm
9
Full Name: Lieven Beuckx
Company Details: Studiebureau Beuckx
Company Position Title: Owner
Country: Belgium
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Has thanked: 90 times
Been thanked: 253 times

Re: Comparison Geoslam Zeb Horizon, Navvis VLX, Kaarta Stencil 2 and Gexcel Heron

Post by landmeterbeuckx »

jsteinert wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:57 pm
GeomDaniloMammarella wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:21 pm
GeomDaniloMammarella wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:33 pm
Why alignment tools aren't great? Have you got some alignment problem in your experience?
Wait a moment.. what you mean when you say "NavVis processing costs per SquareFeet" ?
Do you mean that you pay the NavVis software and than you pay a quote per SF to process data??
Please tell me that I misunderstood

I love to be free from any subscription etc if it's possible.. I'm not very old but I begin with my eyes on a theodolite, and a piece of paper and a pen in the other hand.
A software is only a beautiful and useful calculator from my point of view, you should not pay to calc. You should pay to buy the calculator. That's only my personal opinion..

I hope that I misunderstood about payment per SF

Danilo
NavVis processing is indeed a pay to process/host utility. It used to be based on SF, but now is based on pano count.
So you don't pay a yearly fee for processing but have a per sq/m cost?

That's like these credits for a 2x2x2 m window at geoslam earlier. Impossible to calculate a decent price to quote
LSBbvba
Surveying services - 3D Laserscanning
Tel : +32477753126
www.lsbbvba.be
[email protected]
User avatar
stevenramsey
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 1853
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:22 pm
14
Full Name: Steven Ramsey
Company Details: 4DMax
Company Position Title: Technical Specialist Scanning
Country: UK
Skype Name: steven.ramsey
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Location: London
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 49 times
Contact:

Re: Comparison Geoslam Zeb Horizon, Navvis VLX, Kaarta Stencil 2 and Gexcel Heron

Post by stevenramsey »

Is it possible to export panoramic images with pose informations?
Nope. I was very disappointed when I was told this (for images not sure about panos) online processing always a interesting discussion.
Steven Ramsey

Home [email protected]
Work [email protected]
Mobile +44 7766 310 915
badam
V.I.P Member
V.I.P Member
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 5:36 pm
Full Name: Adam Berta
Company Details: InnoScan 3D Hungary Kft
Company Position Title: unknown
Country: Hungary
Linkedin Profile: No
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 71 times
Contact:

Re: Comparison Geoslam Zeb Horizon, Navvis VLX, Kaarta Stencil 2 and Gexcel Heron

Post by badam »

stevenramsey wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:00 pm
Is it possible to export panoramic images with pose informations?
Nope. I was very disappointed when I was told this (for images not sure about panos) online processing always a interesting discussion.
And always the most expensive... But you have the opportunity to support startuppers... It is not viable for long term i think. Same goes for not onpremise services in other areas.
Post Reply

Return to “General Chat”