Who owns the data?

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landmeterbeuckx
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Who owns the data?

Post by landmeterbeuckx »

Hi,
A client has asked for 2d plans. Not discussed before how i would do his site, he found out i would scan it of course.

Now he asks for the pointcloud to fiddle about with it in revit himself.

My question : who owns this data? I presume it's me. He can have the dwg and pdf because that's what we agreed on.

Could i technically sell on the data to a interior decorator for exemple?
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Re: Who owns the data?

Post by GCFdesign »

It is your intellectual property. You chose the method of capture, not your client.
They requested plans, you generated them, you provided them with such plans, yet the raw data is yours.
Certainly you can sell them a copy of the data, yet the intellectual property of the data is retained by yourself.
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Re: Who owns the data?

Post by robin ault »

Unless the scanns were asked for you do own the copyright, the client only asked for drawings after all, its a bit like the person who presses the shutter on a camera owns the image ( not the owner of the camera ). Sometimes we get asked for the data by the client after the fact and we charge a small fee, but you could find yourself in a hot water selling that data to a 3rd party.

Rob

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Re: Who owns the data?

Post by sim.herrod »

We have a very clear paragraph in our quotes/tenders that specifies what deliverables are included and what aren't.

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Re: Who owns the data?

Post by joellucas »

Let's take a look on "local" laws, but this is exactly like pictures : the photograph is the owner of he's works. Intellectual property. So what the client buy is just the final deliverable product ( the model, the DWG or RVT final delivery ). All "intermediate" works aren't client property. But you could buy the point cloud @ the same price as Revit model... ;)

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Re: Who owns the data?

Post by smacl »

sim.herrod wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:04 pm
We have a very clear paragraph in our quotes/tenders that specifies what deliverables are included and what aren't.
Best way of doing it. On the survey side of things we usually advise our clients to specify that all observed data and control used to construct the final models must be included in the delivery. This can be essential if you need to do any independent QA on the surveys you procure, which can often be the case where you've multiple models that don't fit together on a big job.

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Re: Who owns the data?

Post by jedfrechette »

I'd say you're well within your rights to negotiate an additional fee for additional deliverables.

That being said I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that you automatically own intellectual property (i. e. copyright) just because you scanned something. At least in the U.S., for something to be copyrightable it needs to be an original work that involves some amount of creative expression. You can't copyright facts or data. An example of how this can play out in the courts is Meshwerks vs Toyota. The court held that even though Meshwerks put in a large amount of manual effort to digitally recreate Toyota's vehicles their intent was to duplicate the vehicles as exactly as possible and therefore the models couldn't be copyrighted because they were simply copies, not original works. Of course, if the data isn't copyrightable that probably means your client doesn't own it by default either.

I am not a lawyer and this is definitely a YMMV situation, especially since almost all the responses in this thread have been from people in different countries. I guess this is a long winded way of saying it probably depends on exactly what your contract does (or doesn't say).
Jed

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Re: Who owns the data?

Post by yankoch »

jedfrechette wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:07 pm
At least in the U.S., for something to be copyrightable it needs to be an original work that involves some amount of creative expression. You can't copyright facts or data.
Same in France: the job must include something such as a piece of art or a development: artistic photo, logo, music, algorithms...
Tip to know for the logo: if you hire a trainee to do a logo, make sure there is a transfer of property in the contract, otherwise your trainee will own the logo!
If the work uses existing equipment and softwares to produce standard data, it isn't considered as something that can get a copyright.

There's also a difference between using data and reselling / sending them to a third part company. The customer pays the hours on site, the fixed fees, and the hours spent on registration, not only the scan to model work.
He should have the right to ask for the data for internal use, but he probably won't have the right to resell these data or send them to a third part company (a competitor for example).
Last edited by yankoch on Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Who owns the data?

Post by jamesworrell »

jedfrechette wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:07 pm
That being said I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that you automatically own intellectual property (i. e. copyright) just because you scanned something. At least in the U.S., for something to be copyrightable it needs to be an original work that involves some amount of creative expression. You can't copyright facts or data.
Maybe this applies for the scans but not the registration .. :(

Then again, comparing a scan with a photo - I can’t say I see a difference. Start with the spherical image - surely this is equivalent to a normal photo with respect to copyright?

Why would therefore a scan be different? The location was chosen, the settings were chosen. The subject matter was chosen. This is how a photo is taken?

Terrestrial vs mobile gets more interesting.

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Re: Who owns the data?

Post by smacl »

jamesworrell wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:57 am
Maybe this applies for the scans but not the registration .. :(

Then again, comparing a scan with a photo - I can’t say I see a difference. Start with the spherical image - surely this is equivalent to a normal photo with respect to copyright?

Why would therefore a scan be different? The location was chosen, the settings were chosen. The subject matter was chosen. This is how a photo is taken?

Terrestrial vs mobile gets more interesting.
Privacy can also be an issue, where data collected on behalf of a client of their private property could not be sold on to a third party. Providing additional or enhanced data to the original client and charging for it is entirely reasonable and happens regularly. What we see happening quite often with our users is that the client looks for the point cloud, gets it, realizes they don't have the resources to do much with it other than look at it and then pays to have additional extraction work done.

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