Deprecation of the US survey foot

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SAttaya
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Deprecation of the US survey foot

Post by SAttaya »

saw a link to this at https://rplstoday.com/community/surveyi ... r-31-2022/
on rplstoday.com:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... ovDelivery

Any comments...other than "that's why we use metric"?

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Scott.Warren
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Re: Deprecation of the US survey foot

Post by Scott.Warren »

This map was in the comments, supposedly made by The Orange County Chapter of California Land Surveyors Association.

Imageems.

I didn't realize it could be so different from state to state. Weird that the type of foot isn't specified on some SPC systems.

I'd rather the USA skip removing USFT and just switch to metric, but I know that will never happen. It is a worthwhile discussion with FT vs USFT. Only issues happen in large coordinate systems, so most people don't know/care about it. You surveyor would care, not sure who else would.

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Re: Deprecation of the US survey foot

Post by James Hall »

The use of the US survey foot has nothing to do with 2022 modernization. It is not defined or included. If a surveyor or state state plane system continues to be used the US survey foot then it's on them to ensure the conversions are done properly to the new standard.

The problem comes into play with this forced uniformity, states can and have adopted whatever standard they wished too. The federal government tried to force a change to the Meter with dubious results. A simpler change with the deprecation of the US foot could run the same rout.

Relative coordinates are in the background of all these surveys. When you go to Geo-reference them you start to care about unit conversions with 2 part per million differences. That State standards are published and have computerized solutions. If the Fed has a standard that dose not include the US survey foot you just account for it when you Geo-reference. Don't convert to US foot from Meter or lat long. Just go strait to International foot coordinate system. Converting Lat long into International feet is not hard its done every day.
Relative coordinates to Geo-referenced coordinates.

Some bureaucrat is getting fussy over uniformity.

James,

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Matt Young
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Re: Deprecation of the US survey foot

Post by Matt Young »

I think there was a time when dimensions needed to be cast in stone, or steel in this example in Glasgow.

https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/5022 ... ure-plaque

I hate metric and I live in the UK. My father was an engineer and I was brought up using imperial. My old cars are all built using whitworth. There is something nice in my mind about the olda ways.
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Re: Deprecation of the US survey foot

Post by jcoco3 »

I certainly will not miss US foot from an operation efficiency point of view, but it only eliminates one of the many unit/coordinate conversions that we must to deal with so it is not a huge gain from that perspective.

I don't fully understand what the relative change this will make to the coordinates, by that I mean for a given area, lets say southern Louisiana, will we still be approximatley dealing with 33.XXXXXX and -90.XXXXXX? If so then the it sounds like Large coordinates will still be an issue for us which tends to trump the other unit conversion problems. Probably time to go chat with an informed surveyor.

Time to get philosophical for no reason at all :mrgreen:

Through my experiences in fabrication and machining, I developed what I would consider my primary sense of measure(inches) in which I relate all other measurements to. Plate and sheet thickness in both decimals of an inch and gauge are burned into my brain and I now posses "micrometer eyes". Working as a mechanic gave me an appreciation for metric to fractional inches conversion and also a frustration for 10mm sockets when I needed a 3/8". Laser scanning and survey has forced me to embrace more units of measure, but I still have to convert some back to inches when neccessary so I can relate to them better. I can not tell you how many conversations with a surveyor about tenths of a foot have had to be converted for me to properly understand, but my overall awareness of the other units of measure has grown daily, and I now attempt to see them all simultaneously. It is a little too much for my monkey brain to handle. Makes me appreciate those fluent in multiple languages a bit more.

Sometimes I like to try to take vacation from these unit of measure semantics by revisiting this scene from the movie Lucy:
Time is the only true unit of measure. It gives proof to the existence of matter. Without time, we don't exist. We've codified our existence to bring it down to human size, to make it comprehensible, we've created a scale so we can forget its unfathomable scale.

youtu.be/vwObck9twes

I wonder if this statement is philosophically true, and what ancient source of intelect likely influenced this scene...where is Scott Page when I need him?

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Matt Young
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Re: Deprecation of the US survey foot

Post by Matt Young »

jcoco3 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:44 pm
I certainly will not miss US foot from an operation efficiency point of view, but it only eliminates one of the many unit/coordinate conversions that we must to deal with so it is not a huge gain from that perspective.

I don't fully understand what the relative change this will make to the coordinates, by that I mean for a given area, lets say southern Louisiana, will we still be approximatley dealing with 33.XXXXXX and -90.XXXXXX? If so then the it sounds like Large coordinates will still be an issue for us which tends to trump the other unit conversion problems. Probably time to go chat with an informed surveyor.

Time to get philosophical for no reason at all :mrgreen:

Through my experiences in fabrication and machining, I developed what I would consider my primary sense of measure(inches) in which I relate all other measurements to. Plate and sheet thickness in both decimals of an inch and gauge are burned into my brain and I now posses "micrometer eyes". Working as a mechanic gave me an appreciation for metric to fractional inches conversion and also a frustration for 10mm sockets when I needed a 3/8". Laser scanning and survey has forced me to embrace more units of measure, but I still have to convert some back to inches when neccessary so I can relate to them better. I can not tell you how many conversations with a surveyor about tenths of a foot have had to be converted for me to properly understand, but my overall awareness of the other units of measure has grown daily, and I now attempt to see them all simultaneously. It is a little too much for my monkey brain to handle. Makes me appreciate those fluent in multiple languages a bit more.

Sometimes I like to try to take vacation from these unit of measure semantics by revisiting this scene from the movie Lucy:
Time is the only true unit of measure. It gives proof to the existence of matter. Without time, we don't exist. We've codified our existence to bring it down to human size, to make it comprehensible, we've created a scale so we can forget its unfathomable scale.

youtu.be/vwObck9twes

I wonder if this statement is philosophically true, and what ancient source of intelect likely influenced this scene...where is Scott Page when I need him?
I would have to disagree with time being the only true unit of measure. Time is not fundamentally a real thing. Time is not necessarily a constant. I would say that light (As all surveyors will know) is a better form of measurement. In our small world we use time to measure with light. But on a larger scale time can be theoretically different for the observer depending on the speed at which one travels. The speed of light is a constant, time is just another measuring device.

The speed at which light travels can actually changed by passing light through different materials. When you put s stick in water you see both the speeds that the light travels at the same time.

And as only older folk will know, time is moving faster and faster as we age. ;)
If you don't see that there is nothing, then you are kidding yourself.

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Re: Deprecation of the US survey foot

Post by jcoco3 »

Matt...Totally in agreement, with the disclaimer that I will try leave my mind open for even more options. For some reason I keep an eye on astrophysics, and the discoveries that are being made about "empty" space. Is it nothing or is it something? Is the expansion of space faster than the speed of light? (Spacetime), so they are the same thing? so are light and gravity connected? My brain hurts.

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Re: Deprecation of the US survey foot

Post by Matt Young »

I believe that the similarities between some things are too coincidental to ignore. The make up of an atom, the spherical shape of a droplet of liquid, a solar system, galaxy or the universe. everything is connected. We are all made from stars.

Those who seek the secrets of the universe, need only to look within.
If you don't see that there is nothing, then you are kidding yourself.

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Matt Young
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Re: Deprecation of the US survey foot

Post by Matt Young »

I like the mystery of it all.

When I was a child I wondered how a tower crane was erected. It fascinated me.

Now that I know, it no longer interests me.
If you don't see that there is nothing, then you are kidding yourself.

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Re: Deprecation of the US survey foot

Post by jcoco3 »

:ugeek: Nerdy, I love it! Thank you for indulging with me :lol:

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