RTC 360 alignment issues.

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brianperth
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RTC 360 alignment issues.

Post by brianperth » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:33 am

Hi all,
Just wondering if anyone else has issues with their RTC360 data. Ok I will explain what happens.

We purchased the RTC for a faster more efficient workflow, I work in the offshore industry surveying mainly pipework and steel work for rectification. We used to use the P40 and that machine is a beast, very clean data and the fact you can select and scan targets on the go for a fine scan makes for a very quick office processing time indeed however, we require imagery, as users of the P40 know that takes approx 12-13 min per scan which is just way too long. Back to the RTC now, a scan with this scanner takes about 3 min with imagery, you can align on the go and all looks well on the IPAD no problem. I import all my raw data into the newest update of cyclone as that's our workflow, open up the registration which is all grouped nicely, do an auto update and check results, all normally come in about 0-1mm every time! I then auto add cloud constraints to tighten it all up and then finally view interim results to see what we have. Now baring in mind that the results even after cloud constraints still say all are within 0-1mm. Why when I slice through the data to check alignments do I always see scans just not perfect, like about 4mm off sometimes. Its happening for every job and can I also say that my setups are only 1 meter apart so the overlap is insane. I have now resorted to putting targets back out around every scan again and manual adding control to modelspace.

Has anyone else had this problem and is there maybe something I'm doing wrong? I thought the point in the RTC was to allow for quick scanning and processing but it's not if I have to fix all the scans again anyway!

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Re: RTC 360 alignment issues.

Post by MikeDailey » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:01 pm

Sounds about right.

False positives are pretty common from what I've seen. I generally double check the visual alignment for each link first thing.

Few things I can think of.

Scanning that close together, you may be able to run the optimize cloud alignments first to tighten those up and then auto update and finally auto add cloud constraints.

Unless you are trying to do a global registration, you can probably avoid adding in control and assigning targets. Instead of this step in the office you would change you data acquisition workflow. Put out targets throughout your scan area before you scan so that everywhere you plan to scan from can see at least three targets and scan potions adjacent can see at least 2 of those same targets. Once the scanner auto recognizes at least 3 targets it will essentially assign those targets itself and will be able to use those during alignment. I don't think you see any visual difference in Cyclone core but if you're using Reg360 these targets will be denoted with a green symbol instead of red. It sounds like you're probably using Cyclone core though, which is wise in my opinion.

Only other thing I would suggest is before auto adding cloud constraints, freeze and create scan world. Do some slices to check alignment. You probably know this already but it took a while before I ever found this function so I'll just highlight it here. If you notice some miss alignment in this step, place a point with pick mode on any part of the cloud that seems misaligned. Then right click and select Object info to find which scan position this came from. Repeat the pick point and object info for the strip of point cloud that you want to align with. Once you have this info go back to your registration, unfreeze and adjust that one link. Should save time over auto adding cloud constraints and then trying to fix multiple links.

brianperth
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Re: RTC 360 alignment issues.

Post by brianperth » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:25 am

Hi Mike,
thanks for the reply. I have resorted back to sticking out targets again and that definitely works a treat, I use the auto find targets on import and then in the registration I use the auto add constraints where it finds all the unnamed targets I put out in the field. I guess I'm just disappointed I have to bother with targets at all with the amount of overlap I have. Guess I'm maybe asking for too much.

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Re: RTC 360 alignment issues.

Post by mike annear » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:42 am

Hi Brian,
It is a bug with the RTC 360. We had exactly the same issue here in Brisbane. Our usual workflow worked fine with P Series data, but not with a brand new RTC 360. The scans were coming in very unlevel, despite the scanner being set up painstaking carefully. This would cause a chain reaction of errors propagating through Cyclone.
Leica were going to look into it, but I have no Idea where they have got to with it.
Look through this forum, you will find other posts in the subject.
Cheers,
Mike.

brianperth
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Re: RTC 360 alignment issues.

Post by brianperth » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:50 am

Mike for sure a leveling issue, when I look through the scans in visual alignment (not in plan view) I can see quite clearly they run off. Anyway good to know It's not just me. Leica need to reimburse us for all this lost time haha.

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Re: RTC 360 alignment issues.

Post by tadol » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:52 pm

brianperth wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:25 am
Hi Mike,
thanks for the reply. I have resorted back to sticking out targets again and that definitely works a treat, I use the auto find targets on import and then in the registration I use the auto add constraints where it finds all the unnamed targets I put out in the field. I guess I'm just disappointed I have to bother with targets at all with the amount of overlap I have. Guess I'm maybe asking for too much.
I’m happy about the first part of that, saddened by the second - I think the targets are sometimes the funnest part!

That’s just me - 8-)

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Re: RTC 360 alignment issues.

Post by Jamesrye » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:36 am

mike annear wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:42 am
Hi Brian,
It is a bug with the RTC 360. We had exactly the same issue here in Brisbane. Our usual workflow worked fine with P Series data, but not with a brand new RTC 360. The scans were coming in very unlevel, despite the scanner being set up painstaking carefully. This would cause a chain reaction of errors propagating through Cyclone.
Leica were going to look into it, but I have no Idea where they have got to with it.
Look through this forum, you will find other posts in the subject.
Cheers,
Mike.
I've had the same problems, but was advised that it was because we weren't using the tablet in the field. What have Leica told you? is it the firmware on the scanner or the registration software causing these problems?

I'd planned to use the RTC on a smaller project to see if the bugs went away with updated firmware and using the tablet in the field. Having read this, maybe I should revert to the P40+istar workflow and wait for the updates.

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Re: RTC 360 alignment issues.

Post by brianperth » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:44 am

I use it with the tablet in the field as mentioned and it aligns everything just not perfect. If you do visual alignments then it makes your job way easier as the scans are almost in the right position you just have to tweak them slightly. TBH I'm doing about 80 scans a day and aligning them within a 14 hour period. Not all bad I guess. I love the istar and that's what I used to use but it's just extra baggage and more processing. The RTC was supposed to be a way to get away from that. It will improve I'm sure. Just need another new update, the last one was fantastic in reducing those huge files. Probably works out just over a gig a scan now for a 3 min scan.

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Re: RTC 360 alignment issues.

Post by pburrows145 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:59 am

Quick question: do you check the results before adding any additional cloud-constraints? What settings are you using for auto-add constraints? What's your "Default Max Search Distance" and "sub-sampling %" and "max iterations" etc? Always worth boosting these values to help tighten the final results.

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Re: RTC 360 alignment issues.

Post by brianperth » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:15 am

Hi Paul, see attached how I have it set up .Yeah I go through each scan to scan and check visual alignments before adding auto add cloud constraints but if the program worked properly the only thing I should have to do is slice it all the end to confirm all is good and not waste my time. I think I mostly use the default settings. If yours is working good would you mind posting a pic up of your settings to see if I can get it to work better on mine.

I have a friend that uses Trimble realworks to process scan data and that does everything no problem and always great results, Just load the scans, let it run and jobs done. Maybe I bought into the wrong company years ago haha.
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