Looking for recommendations for a new scanner (and maybe software)

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Mortum
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Looking for recommendations for a new scanner (and maybe software)

Post by Mortum » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:46 am

Please note: Gathering information, no budget yet!

Since we have an oldie of an scanner that is starting to act up, and showing signs of wear I am looking around for a replacement when the budget is allowed.

What do we scan:
- Infrastructure, like bridges, our local church, etc.
- Heavy machinery for reverse engineering
- Fabrication lines
- Complete buildings (in- and outside)
- Tank/storage depots/halls
- Ship interiors
- And sometimes smaller parts like rubber grommets (ø40x50+mm and 50+mm length), bottles, pumps, etc.

What do we currently use:
- Faro Photon 120 (without the blue sides)
- Faro Scene v4.8
- Geomagic Design X (previously Rapidform XOR)

Our experience and skills are almost completely self taught, and currently I am the only person within my company whom is working with the scanner, so it is hard to just judge something on my own experience, or the commercial pages of the different brands.

We are not commited to FARO, I am open to all brands.

What do we want:
- (preferably) GPS (customers ask about GPS coordinates a lot, still figuring out how to embed it in the results)
- Range of about 100Meters
- Accuracy of sub 2mm @25M distance
- Speed
- Weatherproof!!!!!!!!111oneoneeleven! and dustproof. (Tough.. i still might need an umbrella to keep the mirror clean)
- (would be nice) Lightweight, every time i have to scan, the next day I have a sore shoulder of carrying a very expensive lump of metal, it would be great if it is (way) lighter than the Photon 120.
- Color, I think it is pretty standard nowadays, but it is nice to have a little color in the scans :P
- (would be nice) Not needing the reference spheres/markers all the time. When doing large outdoor locations it would be great if we can allign the scans via GPS and compas. (i can always finetune the allignment of the scans later in Geomagic later)
- Ease of use, I want to get my colleagues into scanning. Setup should be simple so i can go on a undisturbed vacation too :P.


Budget: (NOT CONCLUSIVE, I still need to persuade my boss ;) )
We prefer to spend % extra if it means we get better results, but we are looking for best bang-for-buck around the €40K mark.


What i do not want :!: :
- The newest of the newest, we want tech that has proofen itselfs for a while now, and is regularly updated/maintained by its manufacturer.
- DM's/Emails/personal calls (if i am interested, ill call you ;) ), I think the information about my question could also be valuable to other people looking for an new scanner, so please post them below.
- Links to manufacturer pages, every manufacturer says his/her product is the best, I want user stories :)

What i do want:
- Recommendations! (Scanners and Software)
- Links to trustworthy reviews, or your own experience stories.
- Indications if we need a bigger budget, other expectations, maybe 2 different type of scanners instead of one jack-of-all-trades, etc.


Candidates: (will be updated with your input)
Faro S 150
Leica P20 (not sure about the price)

Winner:
TBA

p.s. Located in Europe: The Netherlands
P.p.s. Boss requested me not to include company name to my profile.. :? so that has been removed.
Still people can easily find it with some Google-Fu.. (or send me an DM if you have sufficient reason to inquire that info :roll: )
Last edited by Mortum on Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sincerely, Robin van der Molen

Gear and Software:
Ye olde: Faro Photon 120
Ye olde: Faro Scene: 4.8
Geomagic Design X
Autodesk Recap

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Re: Looking for reccomendations for a new scanner (and maybe software)

Post by ddustin » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:49 pm

Robin,
Nice job on the description of your needs and expectations.
First off, Photon 120... ouch.
2nd, Scene 4.8 I know it well.

Good luck with your decision making process. It sounds like you are in the drivers seat 8-)
David
Global Director of Public Safety - Product Management

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Re: Looking for reccomendations for a new scanner (and maybe software)

Post by Mortum » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:44 am

ddustin wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:49 pm
Robin,
Nice job on the description of your needs and expectations.
First off, Photon 120... ouch.
To be fair, we still get great accuracy out of it!
(3mm @ 40(ish) meters in a test i did 3 months ago, processing done in Geomagic Design X)

But the major fact is that it is getting old, and we already hacked the battery so we can connect an E-Bike battery to it (and hot-swap it during scans)
because the original battery only holds power for 6 scans.
Also it is developing some strange quirks, and because of that becomming unreliable for unexperienced colleagues..

+ It is a really heavy device :shock: I can't wait for the day i dont have to climb 5 floors via a cage ladder dragging that thing along.
2nd, Scene 4.8 I know it well.
hehe, per scan:
<select> -> <filter> -> <select> -> <find objects> -> <Spheres>

Repeat x amount of scans.
Good luck with your decision making process. It sounds like you are in the drivers seat 8-)
David
Thanks! :)
Tough i might sounded "harsh" towards manufacturers (Sorry!! not my intention!), i just have really bad experiences with salesmen..
(Promising the world, and in the end just delivering a bigger bill for the same service I/we had before)

I do appreciate all input tough when it is on personal note :)
Sincerely, Robin van der Molen

Gear and Software:
Ye olde: Faro Photon 120
Ye olde: Faro Scene: 4.8
Geomagic Design X
Autodesk Recap

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Re: Looking for reccomendations for a new scanner (and maybe software)

Post by Tookie » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:24 pm

We have been through this recently although we haven't bought anything yet and our wants and needs are different. I have seen most of the available scanners in action and the ones that stand out are:

Riegl vz400i with external camera which produces really good clean data and excellent photos (when the camera is adjusted properly) it is ridiculously fast. it's downsides are cost and weight.

Z+F 1516? I may have the wrong model.. compact lightweight fairly fast easy to use and has built in LED lighting.

Trimble TX-8 this isnt talked about much but it was very good and produced good data.

Leica RTC 360 compact, lightweight, fast. This is very new and is pitched below the P20/P40 presumably due to the lack of a compensator.

The faro units are also good but I find they are very slow. I also saw the topcon unit which was also very slow.

Software wise I only really know cyclone so can't really comment but software will be based to some extent on the scanner you choose.

If your budget limited a second hand P20 wouldn't be a bad choice but then you would need to invest in the software and training.

These opinions are my own

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Re: Looking for reccomendations for a new scanner (and maybe software)

Post by Mortum » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:13 am

Tookie wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:24 pm
We have been through this recently although we haven't bought anything yet and our wants and needs are different. I have seen most of the available scanners in action and the ones that stand out are:

Riegl vz400i with external camera which produces really good clean data and excellent photos (when the camera is adjusted properly) it is ridiculously fast. it's downsides are cost and weight.

Z+F 1516? I may have the wrong model.. compact lightweight fairly fast easy to use and has built in LED lighting.

Trimble TX-8 this isnt talked about much but it was very good and produced good data.

Leica RTC 360 compact, lightweight, fast. This is very new and is pitched below the P20/P40 presumably due to the lack of a compensator.

The faro units are also good but I find they are very slow. I also saw the topcon unit which was also very slow.

Software wise I only really know cyclone so can't really comment but software will be based to some extent on the scanner you choose.

If your budget limited a second hand P20 wouldn't be a bad choice but then you would need to invest in the software and training.

These opinions are my own
Thank you so much for this list!! ill look into it. :D


You are saying Faro is slow, but they are the only manufacturer promising the accuracy we prefer. (we are an engineering office)
Speed is important, but in the end compaired to our Photon 120, i think all newer scanners are a improvement :P

But first ill look a little further at all you mentioned, thanks again!
Sincerely, Robin van der Molen

Gear and Software:
Ye olde: Faro Photon 120
Ye olde: Faro Scene: 4.8
Geomagic Design X
Autodesk Recap

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Re: Looking for reccomendations for a new scanner (and maybe software)

Post by smacl » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:01 pm

We have a number of customers using P40s and P20s for road and rail surveying to good effect, the following link has a bunch of videos which may be of interest. You're welcome to a trial license when you come to looking at software. With regards to 2mm accuracy, you might want to stretch your budget to a 2nd hand P40 rather than P20 as this has been the source of the best quality scan data that's landed on my desk in recent years. Much slower but also worth a look at is the Trimble SX10 which is a very flexible tool for smaller jobs. I'd suggest getting demo's of the different models you're considering buying, carrying out a small multi-setup scan of the same area with all of them, and comparing the results and work flow efficiencies. Best of luck with it and let us know how you get on!

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Re: Looking for reccomendations for a new scanner (and maybe software)

Post by Formula1982 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:06 pm

I would suggest the best bit of kit for your all round needs might be a Z+F 5016 or a Leica P40, however both are a bit pricey.

If you want something a little less fancy but much cheaper and easier to get past the boss's wallet, look at the often overlooked Trimble TX8. You'll get a very good price for one as it's been out a while, but the data is clean, good accuracy over range, its versatile to use for complex indoor scans and also your external scans, can do hdr images (though not quite as good quality as the aforementioned newer scanners) and the software is relatively easy to learn.
Also, as Trimble is a general survey company not just a scanning company you could get a good deal on a Trimble simple GPS receiver and incorporate that into your workflow too, within the same software. In terms of 'bang for your buck' it might be the best for your needs, so if I were you, i'd definitely have a look at the TX8.

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Re: Looking for reccomendations for a new scanner (and maybe software)

Post by ddustin » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:13 pm

Mortum wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:44 am

Thanks! :)
Tough i might sounded "harsh" towards manufacturers (Sorry!! not my intention!), i just have really bad experiences with salesmen..
(Promising the world, and in the end just delivering a bigger bill for the same service I/we had before)

I do appreciate all input tough when it is on personal note :)
Robin,
I'm not in sales ;) and was a long time user before joining FARO.
While I never owned a photon, I hired one on several occasions.
I truly meant you were in the drivers seat and I didn't take your post as harsh at all.

Best of luck to you!
David
Global Director of Public Safety - Product Management

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Re: Looking for reccomendations for a new scanner (and maybe software)

Post by Scott » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:53 pm

There is no mention of Surphaser scanners so far, but they also have a good reputation. The Artec Ray is compatible with other Artec software, so it might be worth look.
The Artec Ray (rebranded Surphaser scanner)
https://www.laserscanningforum.com/foru ... ser#p68763

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Re: Looking for reccomendations for a new scanner (and maybe software)

Post by pbashiri » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:40 pm

This question was asked and it seems it is still the most important question and fairly hard to answer for sure.
I woul say Z+F 5016.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiTUKulv6QM

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