New to scanning, specing out products.

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rmclean
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New to scanning, specing out products.

Post by rmclean » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:30 pm

Hey everyone,

First time posting in the forum, or any forum for that matter. I'm a summer student at an interior construction company that specializes in pre-fabricated solutions with a significant focus on reducing time on the construction site. My boss has tasked me with researching 3D scanners and determining which model would suit best suit the needs of our company. We'd be looking to use a scanner on the interiors of buildings and eventually export them to CAD models. I've done about a day of research into 3D scanners and have found the 3 most popular to be Faro, Leica and Trimble. I was going to start calling these companies and start asking them questions and I just wanted to see if there was anything major i was missing in the list I've attached below. My boss has gone on a conference trip for about a week so he is unable to provide a lot of assistance which is why I've turned to this forum. Let me know if I've missed any major formalities of the forum, but really any advice on this would be extremely helpful.

Pricing Options, what they include
What program is used to export the point cloud data to CAD
What is the compatibility of the software
Would the room have to be stripped, can it
Is it easy to take multiple scans and stitch them together?
- Working in spaces with partitions, lots of corners, etc.
- What methods are most effective when working in these scenarios
How does the product do with recognizing glass
- Interior and exterior windows, glass tiles
What kind of educational opportunities are present
- Any training options offered?
What kind of warranty is on the product
What kind of service options are on the product
What kind of file sizes will this produce
- Room sizes generally create file sizes in the _________ range
How does file transfer occur (from the device to the computer)
Where would the product ship from, can you provide an estimate on the shipping costs?

Thanks,
Rob

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Formula1982
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Re: New to scanning, specing out products.

Post by Formula1982 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:44 am

Is it only indoor scanning you're looking to do, with CAD drawings as the ultimate thing you're looking for?

If price is the biggest concern, Faro short range scanners will be a quick, cost effective way to get building surveys done. Trimble scanners, of the sort you really want for this sort of work, are actually re-badged Faro scanners. The Trimble scanners that aren't re-badged are probably not the most suitable for your needs.

Leica again, may not have the ideal solution for rapidly scanning buildings, unless you're looking at the BLK360.

Also consider looking at Z+F.

Please be aware that inexperienced guys using scanners can more often than not make mistakes which turn out very costly. Look at getting experienced surveyors to do your surveys, and of course experienced processing guys too. At least at first, while you learn.

I'm pretty hardware/software agnostic. But my experiences and opinions will be wildly different than others, so keep that in mind!

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Re: New to scanning, specing out products.

Post by steves01x » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:21 am

The BLK360 is probably what you are after if on a budget (assuming its as good as it claims to be as there is only 1 sample scan available) . The Faro & Scene is a quick set up and registration for small jobs and its light enough it can easily be set up in tight spaces.

But i would still chose to use P40 and Cyclone over anything else as i know the quality of data and how well it registers together - there have been some jobs where we need to use the Faro as well due to its size and weight. (i have not used Z&F or Riegl - if i was out to buy i would want to try these 2 along with the Leica and their processing software.)

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Re: New to scanning, specing out products.

Post by pburrows145 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:22 pm

Formula1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:44 am
Is it only indoor scanning you're looking to do, with CAD drawings as the ultimate thing you're looking for?

If price is the biggest concern, Faro short range scanners will be a quick, cost effective way to get building surveys done. Trimble scanners, of the sort you really want for this sort of work, are actually re-badged Faro scanners. The Trimble scanners that aren't re-badged are probably not the most suitable for your needs.

Leica again, may not have the ideal solution for rapidly scanning buildings, unless you're looking at the BLK360.

Also consider looking at Z+F.

Please be aware that inexperienced guys using scanners can more often than not make mistakes which turn out very costly. Look at getting experienced surveyors to do your surveys, and of course experienced processing guys too. At least at first, while you learn.

I'm pretty hardware/software agnostic. But my experiences and opinions will be wildly different than others, so keep that in mind!
We do sell a lot of ScanStation P16's for this type of application. Worth a look for the budget conscious. The C10 is also still available in some regions for a very affordable price.

rmclean
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Re: New to scanning, specing out products.

Post by rmclean » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:48 pm

Formula1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:44 am
Is it only indoor scanning you're looking to do, with CAD drawings as the ultimate thing you're looking for?

If price is the biggest concern, Faro short range scanners will be a quick, cost effective way to get building surveys done. Trimble scanners, of the sort you really want for this sort of work, are actually re-badged Faro scanners. The Trimble scanners that aren't re-badged are probably not the most suitable for your needs.

Leica again, may not have the ideal solution for rapidly scanning buildings, unless you're looking at the BLK360.

Also consider looking at Z+F.

Please be aware that inexperienced guys using scanners can more often than not make mistakes which turn out very costly. Look at getting experienced surveyors to do your surveys, and of course experienced processing guys too. At least at first, while you learn.

I'm pretty hardware/software agnostic. But my experiences and opinions will be wildly different than others, so keep that in mind!
The primary use for these is going to be interiors and yes CAD models and 2D floor plans would be the end goal of using the scanner. My boss originally stated he wanted accuracy around 1mm (which I've learned is unrealistic to achieve) but has also put the upper end of my budget around $100,000. I've had difficulty getting actual dollar and cents values from providers which has made it difficult to begin narrowing down options but still working on that. As of right now I am looking mainly at Faro, Z+F and then the BLK360 but as already stated, I'm unsure of how pricing will impact this. Any insight you have on model pricing would be extremely helpful.

Rob

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pburrows145
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Re: New to scanning, specing out products.

Post by pburrows145 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:02 pm

BLK360 is ~$16k (US), for guidance. So you could buy a few at level of cost :D

You may wish to investigate the ScanStation series (P16/30/40) if you're after cleaner data, surveying workflows, real-time dual-axis compensation etc.

Happy to put you in touch with the Canadian team: they're a great bunch!

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Formula1982
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Re: New to scanning, specing out products.

Post by Formula1982 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:27 pm

rmclean wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:48 pm
Formula1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:44 am
Is it only indoor scanning you're looking to do, with CAD drawings as the ultimate thing you're looking for?

If price is the biggest concern, Faro short range scanners will be a quick, cost effective way to get building surveys done. Trimble scanners, of the sort you really want for this sort of work, are actually re-badged Faro scanners. The Trimble scanners that aren't re-badged are probably not the most suitable for your needs.

Leica again, may not have the ideal solution for rapidly scanning buildings, unless you're looking at the BLK360.

Also consider looking at Z+F.

Please be aware that inexperienced guys using scanners can more often than not make mistakes which turn out very costly. Look at getting experienced surveyors to do your surveys, and of course experienced processing guys too. At least at first, while you learn.

I'm pretty hardware/software agnostic. But my experiences and opinions will be wildly different than others, so keep that in mind!
The primary use for these is going to be interiors and yes CAD models and 2D floor plans would be the end goal of using the scanner. My boss originally stated he wanted accuracy around 1mm (which I've learned is unrealistic to achieve) but has also put the upper end of my budget around $100,000. I've had difficulty getting actual dollar and cents values from providers which has made it difficult to begin narrowing down options but still working on that. As of right now I am looking mainly at Faro, Z+F and then the BLK360 but as already stated, I'm unsure of how pricing will impact this. Any insight you have on model pricing would be extremely helpful.

Rob
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pbashiri
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Re: New to scanning, specing out products.

Post by pbashiri » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:54 am

Hello Rob,
It looks like you are in Canada too, you can call us at Aero Geometrics in Vancouver. We have done loads of Architectural,interior design and construction laser scanning and Revit BIM modeling base on point cloud. I can share plenty of samples and as an Architect I`m quite sure what expect from laser scanning and CAD deliverables. Also we are Canadian Z+F scanners dealer.
Regards
Peyman Bashiri

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Re: New to scanning, specing out products.

Post by sshemro » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:30 pm

Formula1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:44 am

Please be aware that inexperienced guys using scanners can more often than not make mistakes which turn out very costly. Look at getting experienced surveyors to do your surveys, and of course experienced processing guys too. At least at first, while you learn.

I'm pretty new to this myself, could you offer a little more insight as to what specifically you see often? My current workflow is as follows:
  1. View drawings of space to be scanned, depending on layout either draw up scan location plans or decide to "wing it"
  • Layout spheres at location, traversing as needed, by moving spheres that become out of view/too far from scanner (we only have 6)
  • Scan (FARO x330), attempting to capture as much of the space as possible ensuring overlap where possible, but not unnecessary (back side of a concrete column in the corner of the space, etc.)
  • Register scans via SCENE, using automatic registration, and verifying targets before registering, also selecting "calculate scan point statistics," so I get a report of c2c relation also
  • Confirm registration both visually, and by ensuring a sub 6mm deviation, aiming for a roughly ~2mm mean distance error between targets and aiming for sub 3mm mean point error via c2c (using "calculate scan point", not by overriding the target registration by doing a separate c2c registration subsequently
  • Chose a face, select points, create plane, align plane north
  • Create Project Point Cloud
  • Remove erroneous points, most notably reflections, people, trash, etc.
  • Export to .e57, so as to reduce the decimation of points when brought in to ReCap (as exporting directly to .rcp decimates with a 5mm grid)
  • Import to ReCap, and from there do whatever I need to do
I'm currently working on adding an additional step or two to roughly align the project via Navisworks, and then transforming my "Scans" in SCENE before creating PPC, but that's a work in progress and not necessary on every job.

I'm just curious if you could offer some insight on something I may be overlooking, or doing in error. I'm the only person at my company (General Contractor specializing in custom interior buildouts, very similar to OP it sounds like), and I have no QC or reference to know how accurate I am, or if I'm screwing something up, and I'm VERY nervous about making a mistake and costing my company thousands and thousands of dollars.

I would really appreciate your input!

Thanks,

Skyler

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