Hi, everyone! Question for the group.

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Re: Hi, everyone! Question for the group.

Post by jamesworrell »

Old Piper wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:45 pm To clarify by what I meant by smaller projects, the last smaller scan we had done was around 12 scan locations, 2 elevations, an area roughly 120'x100'. Indexed point cloud only (no model) cost 7k USD.
Holy crap! I could do it ex-Australia for that price and still make money. Once covid is over .. let's talk. ;-p
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Re: Hi, everyone! Question for the group.

Post by rollorigby »

Old Piper wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:45 pm
rollorigby wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:42 pm Maybe have a look at a used scanner? C10 will give very usable results and good accuracy with a simple workflow. Not as fast as the latest kit, but fine for smaller projects. Also more manageable file sizes which is a consideration.
I had not considered a used scanner.

To clarify by what I meant by smaller projects, the last smaller scan we had done was around 12 scan locations, 2 elevations, an area roughly 120'x100'. Indexed point cloud only (no model) cost 7k USD.

At that rate, a used scanner would pay for itself after only a few uses.
I think so. A used C10 should be obtainable for similar outlay to a new BLK360, but with advantage of a level compensator for accuracy and better range. 12 scans should only be a couple of hours work with control tie in. Possibly even doing away with total station work if control is nearby. Worth a look.

Difficult to compare survey costs across different countries, but 7k USD seems a little steep. Travel time may bump it up though. Probably looking at half that in the UK in GBP, so maybe 5k USD.
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Re: Hi, everyone! Question for the group.

Post by smacl »

Old Piper wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:40 pmNow the question I ask of you professionals: Is there a simple, cost effective scanner or hand scanner we could use for as-building for smaller projects that can’t cover the cost of hiring a professional survey/scan? We do have a Total Station that we use to tie field surveys back to our plant grid. But we must rely on extensive field measurements for as-building prior to starting new designs/modifications. We have become very familiar with working with point clouds, but these smaller projects are a PITA when we must rely on hand sketches. Any suggestions are welcome.
Slightly different route, but you could try contacting (RJ) Richard Johnson of 3DLS, see https://www.linkedin.com/in/rj-richard-j-00760380/ RJ will hire scanners, provide instruction on your workflow and carry out registration as a value added service. He also offers just the registration based on your own scan based on following his prescribed workflow.

I'd agree with Rollo that there are some good second hand deals on C10 scanners out there and it can be very accurate piece of kit when used properly. Phil Marsh who co-runs this forum, https://www.linkedin.com/in/philiphaydenmarsh/ had one for sale last year but no idea if it is still available and what shipping to the states would involve. Ideally, if you could pick up a second hand one from someone local to you who could also provide some training on its use it would be better than buying at arms length.
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Re: Hi, everyone! Question for the group.

Post by landmeterbeuckx »

Old Piper wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:45 pm
rollorigby wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:42 pm Maybe have a look at a used scanner? C10 will give very usable results and good accuracy with a simple workflow. Not as fast as the latest kit, but fine for smaller projects. Also more manageable file sizes which is a consideration.
I had not considered a used scanner.

To clarify by what I meant by smaller projects, the last smaller scan we had done was around 12 scan locations, 2 elevations, an area roughly 120'x100'. Indexed point cloud only (no model) cost 7k USD.

At that rate, a used scanner would pay for itself after only a few uses.
7k USD, i would say they are ripping you off. No way ever is this justified for 12 scans. Except if it is a very remote location but then again...
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Re: Hi, everyone! Question for the group.

Post by TommyMaddox »

Curious as to how much of that 7k is wrapped into either daily minimum charge/travel and mobilization etc...
A lot of the one or two man shops may jump all over that because it's revenue and their overhead is very low as they don't have big teams and lots of equipment to keep going. Bigger firms or companies may find that administration on the job simply isn't worth it below a given amount so I'd be surprised if they'd even come out for such a small scanning only project if there's no downstream revenue opportunities to be had either.

If you're frequently encountering these tiny sub 20 scan projects and you don't have the ability to get the entire plant scanned and surveyed such that you could reference a full data set whenever needed, then it may make financial sense to get a used unit in house to accompany your total station. Or consider finding a more local small firm that can handle these tiny scopes at a more reasonable price.
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Re: Hi, everyone! Question for the group.

Post by Old Piper »

jcoco3 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:31 pm Thanks Ed. That clarifies what your definition of small is quite nicely.

At this point, I would say that a handheld scanner would be a stretch for that situation. ...

In regards to you larger projects. I would like to mention that at least some portion of what you are paying for is an often unseen professional skill required to accurately register and tie/constrain with survey control a scan project of that magnitude. You may understand this better than most, but it still takes a good bit of hard work to obtain an accurately registered point cloud prior to the modeling effort. I am not defending anyone's prices, just trying to make sure you don't miss that step in between. Simply put, if you do decide to purchase your own scanner and do the smaller projects yourself, let it be known that there is still a good bit of learning and hard work in that step in between.

Starting small is a good way to go, and to give you perhaps a confidence boost my very first real project was only twelve scans, and even with my unbelievable ignorance at the time I managed to not botch things up. If I had to use the scans today, they would not need to be re-registered.
12 scans-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVkY6nlmj38
Thanks Jonathan, and all. You have been very helpful.

I believe it may be hard for me to justify to corporate, the cost of terrestrial equipment and software, as well as tying up a designer or two. I will have to crunch some numbers. I was hoping a hand-held unit would do the job, but now I believe it would be of very limited use.

As for all the comments on our costs: We must get 3 bids for every scan. Those bids are usually within 20% of each other. I agree that we are probably getting screwed, but at least it's been consistent for the past 20 years.
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