New Computer Advice

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badam
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Re: New Computer Advice

Post by badam »

smacl wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:12 am
badam wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:55 ambut you can do almost anything with an import running in the background... It will just eat up 30-40 gb ram and few processing cores, nothing really bad. The same goes for exporting. Render with 3dsmax or other things like photogammetry, or recap imports you are right that should run on a secondary machine, which can be stronger, then the main machine.
Good to know. I would have expected (hoped?) any decent export function to be throttled by disk I/O speed. Not always the case when dealing with older legacy code such as the E57 reference libraries. Import can be slower at times if you're doing something like building an octree on a single core.
well, register360 import is slow because of the panoramic images (points import usually takes about 40-60 sec/setup image takes about 80-120 sec/setup), especially with hdr images (default for rtc360) it process 5 bracket hdr image with a lot of imageprocessing algorithm, which sometims do good, but a lot of times does bad work. And it cannot be disabled. It might depend on the resulting media, but not much, I've seen similar result when we imported to local machine nvme ssd and similar when import to the gigabit nas...

there are options to run the import slow (single threaded),balanced (few cores), high (few more core). But for us this seems really bad, it really doesn't change much difference to run the import in fast or slow, and it has a tendency to underestimate the memory size, so the import crashes because of low amount of ram (with 128 gb available, and a ryzen r9 3900x). So for us is single threaded it is... Until it imports everything during the night (200-300 hdr setup), then not worth the risk to get up in the morning that the import has crashed.

Export is a hole lot of other thing in reg360... there are optimizations which was done because of my feature requests, but still there are times when it just takes 10 percent of the export with useless things. Before my feature request half of the time could not be skipped, but not required to export. Which is huge when you have a project which has 24 hour export time...


If the machine is only for register 360 there is no need to go full spec, won't change much, you just need 64 gb of ram or more, and a decent ssd not required to get high end, even a sata ssd will be fine.
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Re: New Computer Advice

Post by jscottsmith »

Thanks for all the feedback. After reading a number of times and digesting it (along with other threads here and other recommendations) I'll give my current thinking along with some background.

We do most of our Reg360 work on an older machine. (Working primarily with RTC360 data if that matters.) I'm sure it could benefit from an update, but Reg360 doesn't seem to be a significant hangup on that one right now. Call that machine System A.

System A is useless running Cyclone 3DR. We've been doing that on a somewhat newer machine quite successfully, but I won't argue with an improvement there! (This machine is usually our RealityCapture photogrammetry machine as well.) Call this one System B.

Finally, I do a lot of design in SketchUp and MAX using the point cloud as an underlay. MAX natively handles Recap files well enough, though Recap is not generally my friend. SketchUp does quite well with Undet. Biggest hangup is initial file load time and total points I can load at a time. I'd prefer to forego the clipping box when possible - especially when using classified clouds. The machine I'm using for this work is a laptop (System C) that I'm sure is a bottleneck for this use.

All that said, I'd like to collapse all of the above into one strong system in the $4-5k range if possible. (Open to arguments contrary to this.) I have no desire to include a laptop in the mix. I'd love to hear any more specific suggestions you might have!

System A (2015):
i7-5820 @ 3.30GHz (6 core)
32GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 w/6GB GDDR5
Gigabit ethernet on mobo
Samsung 850 EVO 250GB
Samsung 870 EVO 1TB
WD Green 4TB SATA 6 Gb/s

System B (2019):
i9-9900k @ 3.60GHz (8 core/16 thread)
64GB RAM
EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti w/11GB GDDR6
Intel X520-T2 10GB ethernet
Samsung 970 EVO 500GB
Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB
WD Blue 3TB

System C (2015, laptop):
i7-6700 @ 3.40GHz (4 core)
32GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M w/8GB GDDR5
Killer E2400 Gigabit ethernet
SAMSUNG 950 PRO M.2 256GB PCIe
WD Blue 1TB 5400 RPM 8MB Cache SATA III
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Re: New Computer Advice

Post by Kruse »

Posted something similar in a different thread, but here's a few specs of the best overall suited desktop computer for Register 360 that I've been able to find through my testing this last 6 months. Keep in mind, I've been comparing computers between Dell, Lenovo, and custom built computers through Puget Systems. These datasets tested were typical to what we see on an average construction project. So some datasets tested were indoor scans with just B/W, no images. Some were outdoor enviornments of concrete decks before placing concrete, and some datasets where we scan inside walls and ceilings before closing them in with drywall. These datasets were containing anywhere from 100-400 setups (mostly Medium density scans to ensure a good, solid test of speed and stability throughout the whole workflow.

Register 360's biggest difference with import speed is CPU and RAM, but a few of the computers I've been testing these last few months included builds containing these CPU's.
  • AMD 3970X
  • AMD 3975WX
  • AMD 5950X
  • AMD 5975WX
  • Intel 12900K
  • Dual Intel Xeon 8280's
The absolute fastest computer tested to date was built with these specs:
  • CPU - 12900K
  • RAM - 128GB DDR5 - maxxed out for this CPU
  • GPU - 3090 and A6000 performed equally, but we preferred 3090 for price/performance
  • Storage - (2) 2TB 980 Pro's with 18TB HDD for archiving and mass storage
This 12900K based computer was nearly twice as fast as the 3970X based computer for our typical Register 360 workflows (the Dual 8280's were about 2.5 times slower than the 12900K). I didn't have access to a 12900KS, but that CPU should have been slightly faster yet with its higher clock speeds.

For some examples of the speed of this computer throughout my testing:

- B/W Medium density setups (no images) - Imported at 7.4 seconds per setup
- Medium Density setups with 5K images imported for an outdoor enviornment scan (sky visible) - Imported at 59 seconds per setup
- Medium Density Setups with 5K images imported for an indoor enviornment in studs walls and overhead ceilings - imported at 1m 56s per setup. These photos take significantly longer for Reg360 to process... Something with overlapping stud walls and lots of Paralaxxing issues it needs to resolve when importing.

The exact enviornment you're scanning in will affect the processing time, so just keep that in mind. If I scanned a finished room/building with clean, painted walls and ceilings, I would bet instead of 59 seconds per setup, I'd be closer to 45-50 seconds a setup when processing images. B/W scans were pretty consistent and different enviornments didn't change much. It was mostly based off how many points captured per setup.

The new Threadripper Pros (59xx WX series) were not terribly far behind the 12900K CPU, so if you require more multithreadded horse power for other applications outside of Register 360, that might be the way to go. If building a computer purely for Register 360, no doubt the best option at this time is based off a 12900KS CPU.
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Re: New Computer Advice

Post by jedfrechette »

jscottsmith wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:03 pmThe machine I'm using for this work is a laptop (System C) that I'm sure is a bottleneck for this use.

All that said, I'd like to collapse all of the above into one strong system in the $4-5k range if possible.
I think you’re on the right track with replacing the laptop, but I wouldn’t go as far as trying to consolidate everything in to a single system. I’m firmly in Shane’s camp in preferring a “wide tree” with multiple lower powered systems rather than just 1 or 2 monolithic monster machines. It’s more resilient and with the right software choices easier to distribute work on.

Our recent builds have tended to be around $6k: 12 or 16 core Non-Threadripper Ryzen, 128 GB RAM, 1x or 2x 3080 TI, 10 GBe, and a couple NVMEs.

Given your software list and the hardware you already have I would build a machine for Pix4D/Reality Capture and keep using your other machines for other parts of your workflow where it makes sense. Puget Systems has benchmarks for Pix4D and RC and any computer that runs them well will work fine for the other software on your list so it can still be your primary machine.
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Re: New Computer Advice

Post by MikeDailey »

The big questions for me would be are you comfortable building or do you live nearish a microcenter? You pay a good bit to companies like puget and digital storm which will quickly eat up your budget.

Here's what I would go for from my experience.

Main Specs:
Intel Core i9-12900KS 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor
128 GB DDR5
2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive
4 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive
14 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
GeForce RTX 3060
Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit

$4,046.74 DIY
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/bDfXVw

*$4,514.88* Microcenter
https://www.microcenter.com/site/conten ... 90379d30ee

*$6,676.69* Puget

DIY - Downside is you have to build it and special note here, it looks like the 12900KS may require a motherboard BIOS update on most every board.

Microcenter - Price includes $250 for them to build it for you and $380 to by an RTX3060. The downside for Microcenter is that you are limited to parts they carry and have on hand. You also need to have one close enough that in-person pickup is worthwhile. However, the upside here is that they don't charge much to build and build time is generally 1 day.

Puget - This system has a 3080ti due to offered card options which adds to the price here. They handle everything but you get the least options and you pay high margins for assembly.



Too many people get hung up on GFX cards. There have been many PC discussions here and time and again we see GFX card utilization remain extremely low. The main use is moving around during visualization and modern cards will be more than fine in this department. The 3060 with 12GB of memory represents good value as you wont find another card like this until the 3080ti at more than double the price. The 3080ti doesn't make sense though because at that price you are better off spending slightly more and jumping to a 3090ti with 24gb of memory.
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Re: New Computer Advice

Post by jedfrechette »

MikeDailey wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:59 pmThe 3060 with 12GB of memory represents good value as you wont find another card like this until the 3080ti at more than double the price. The 3080ti doesn't make sense though because at that price you are better off spending slightly more and jumping to a 3090ti with 24gb of memory.
This is a fair point, especially right now with the 4xxx series on the near horizon and rumored to ship with much more memory and performance that wipes the floor with the current generation.
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Re: New Computer Advice

Post by smacl »

MikeDailey wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:59 pmToo many people get hung up on GFX cards. There have been many PC discussions here and time and again we see GFX card utilization remain extremely low. The main use is moving around during visualization and modern cards will be more than fine in this department. The 3060 with 12GB of memory represents good value as you wont find another card like this until the 3080ti at more than double the price. The 3080ti doesn't make sense though because at that price you are better off spending slightly more and jumping to a 3090ti with 24gb of memory.
In addition to visualisation, photogrammetry software commonly uses GPU compute to good effect when computing 3d coordinates from stereo pairs. Worth touching base with your specific software vendor to see what they recommend. Some use CUDA which limit you to nVidia cards.
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Re: New Computer Advice

Post by TommyMaddox »

jedfrechette wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:23 pm
MikeDailey wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:59 pmThe 3060 with 12GB of memory represents good value as you wont find another card like this until the 3080ti at more than double the price. The 3080ti doesn't make sense though because at that price you are better off spending slightly more and jumping to a 3090ti with 24gb of memory.
This is a fair point, especially right now with the 4xxx series on the near horizon and rumored to ship with much more memory and performance that wipes the floor with the current generation.
Where did you hear about the memory amounts? All the news I've heard so far has been that a 4090 is keeping the same 24gb as the 3090.
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Re: New Computer Advice

Post by jedfrechette »

TommyMaddox wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:50 pm Where did you hear about the memory amounts? All the news I've heard so far has been that a 4090 is keeping the same 24gb as the 3090.
I haven't paid much attention to the 90 cards as they generally have pretty poor price/performance ratios for our workloads. Rumors have all the other cards getting memory upgrades though, which probably makes the 4090 an even poorer value for our workloads than the 3090.

For example: https://www.hardwaretimes.com/nvidia-rt ... r6-report/

4060: 12 GB
4070: 16 GB
4080: 16 GB
4080 TI: 20 GB
4090: 24 GB
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