Georeferencing (Sorry)
- James Hall
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:13 pm
- 14
- Full Name: James E Hall
- Company Details: Dewberry Engineering Inc
- Company Position Title: Survey Technician - Cyclone Modeler
- Country: USA
- Location: Frederick, MD
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 37 times
Re: Georeferencing (Sorry)
Hello David.
I can’t speak to the use of Faro software. I’ve always used Leica, but I have worked with Military Grid Reference System a variant of UTM. UTM uses a similar coding for their points. UTM “10 N 706832.000 4344683.000” vs MGRS “10S GJ 06832 44683” vs Lat Long “39°13′36.5381″N, 120°36′13.9834″W”
With Leica Cyclone I recommend using meters as your units and setting up your coordinates based on the UTM grid your in. The 10S dose not matter to Cyclone and the coordinates are easting and northing with .000 to get you to millimeter accuracy.
When I write out my point files is when I would have added in the 10S zone for each point coordinate.
I don’t know if Faro is just reading the coordinates like Cyclone or is truly georeferencing the location like C3D.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal ... ate_system
https://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/ ... -mgrs.html
MGRS is a Meter only system and so is UTM. The zones are designate 100,000-meter square identification grids except for the north and south pole.
UTM is not supported as well as State Plane in some software packages. I would take the control points and convert them into Lat Long, UTM and state plane. Load them into Faro and compare the locations to make sure everything is coming in right.
Cad programs like AutoCAD Civil 3D allow you to write out KMZ files of your coordinates to check your work in Google Earth. Earth Point website can also help plot location and compare. http://www.earthpoint.us/
Is your Raw data in UTM?
James,
I can’t speak to the use of Faro software. I’ve always used Leica, but I have worked with Military Grid Reference System a variant of UTM. UTM uses a similar coding for their points. UTM “10 N 706832.000 4344683.000” vs MGRS “10S GJ 06832 44683” vs Lat Long “39°13′36.5381″N, 120°36′13.9834″W”
With Leica Cyclone I recommend using meters as your units and setting up your coordinates based on the UTM grid your in. The 10S dose not matter to Cyclone and the coordinates are easting and northing with .000 to get you to millimeter accuracy.
When I write out my point files is when I would have added in the 10S zone for each point coordinate.
I don’t know if Faro is just reading the coordinates like Cyclone or is truly georeferencing the location like C3D.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal ... ate_system
https://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/ ... -mgrs.html
MGRS is a Meter only system and so is UTM. The zones are designate 100,000-meter square identification grids except for the north and south pole.
UTM is not supported as well as State Plane in some software packages. I would take the control points and convert them into Lat Long, UTM and state plane. Load them into Faro and compare the locations to make sure everything is coming in right.
Cad programs like AutoCAD Civil 3D allow you to write out KMZ files of your coordinates to check your work in Google Earth. Earth Point website can also help plot location and compare. http://www.earthpoint.us/
Is your Raw data in UTM?
James,
- ddustin
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 956
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:28 pm
- 12
- Full Name: David Dustin
- Company Details: Federal Bureau of Investigations
- Company Position Title: Visualization Information Specialist
- Country: USA
- Linkedin Profile: Yes
- Location: Quantico, VA
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 11 times
- Contact:
Re: Georeferencing (Sorry)
James, thank you for your well thought out response.
I would say not it isn't by default (but can't say that with absolute certainty).
The military "10 Grid" looks interesting and I'm reading up on it now.
Thanks everyone!
David
Director of Industry Solutions | Public Safety
-
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:38 pm
- 14
- Full Name: GrahamM
- Company Details: AVEVA
- Company Position Title: Software Engineer
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 6 times
Re: Georeferencing (Sorry)
The LAS format already has metadata attributes for the projection yet I see National Mapping Agencies delivering data with this not populated. My pet annoyance is failing to define the linear unit, when the data is not geo-referenced.Oatfedgoat wrote: ↑Thu May 31, 2018 12:29 pmIt would be fantastic if software systems started to introduce a field of metadata for accuracy.
I would go as far as wanting it to be an attribute to the file, whether that file is a processed traverse in starnet, a processed survey in N4ce etc, A topo survey in AutoCAD or a full BIM in Revit.
Maybe e57 is the only likely option where it could happen for point clouds?
This would massively help ensure that the accuracy and therefore useability of a survey is never lost as well as help with audit and assurance trails/reports.
I cannot comment on E57 header blocks, I a sure there are members of the forum that contribute to this format.
- landmeterbeuckx
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 1615
- Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 5:19 pm
- 11
- Full Name: Lieven Beuckx
- Company Details: Studiebureau Beuckx
- Company Position Title: Owner
- Country: Belgium
- Linkedin Profile: Yes
- Has thanked: 183 times
- Been thanked: 548 times
Re: Georeferencing (Sorry)
I'll try to make a video with a few scans. Give me some time as i am not a video artist
I'm glad i can give some of my knowledge back to people who have taught me everything about faro scene when i started with it.
In a few days i'll post a small video.
I'm glad i can give some of my knowledge back to people who have taught me everything about faro scene when i started with it.
In a few days i'll post a small video.
- James Hall
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:13 pm
- 14
- Full Name: James E Hall
- Company Details: Dewberry Engineering Inc
- Company Position Title: Survey Technician - Cyclone Modeler
- Country: USA
- Location: Frederick, MD
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 37 times
Re: Georeferencing (Sorry)
Hello David,
I forgot to mention that UTM can measure distances down to .000 of a meter, But MGRS will only measure down to a meter. MGRS can be truncated to divided up the 100,000-meter square identification grids "zones" in to 1,10,100, and 1000 meter grids. This system is optimized for Radio broadcast of your position. I guess if they can drop a bomb within a meter that is close enough.
James
I forgot to mention that UTM can measure distances down to .000 of a meter, But MGRS will only measure down to a meter. MGRS can be truncated to divided up the 100,000-meter square identification grids "zones" in to 1,10,100, and 1000 meter grids. This system is optimized for Radio broadcast of your position. I guess if they can drop a bomb within a meter that is close enough.
James
- landmeterbeuckx
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 1615
- Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 5:19 pm
- 11
- Full Name: Lieven Beuckx
- Company Details: Studiebureau Beuckx
- Company Position Title: Owner
- Country: Belgium
- Linkedin Profile: Yes
- Has thanked: 183 times
- Been thanked: 548 times
Re: Georeferencing (Sorry)
I was fast for once. I made a basic video. If you have any questions just ask.
My apologies for the poor sound quality but you'll get it i think.
youtu.be/K8Wf9gwu0ZU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=K8Wf9gwu0ZU
The image quality isn't that good. You can download the same through this link
https://we.tl/UtWjTwU0km
My apologies for the poor sound quality but you'll get it i think.
youtu.be/K8Wf9gwu0ZU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=K8Wf9gwu0ZU
The image quality isn't that good. You can download the same through this link
https://we.tl/UtWjTwU0km
-
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 958
- Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:18 pm
- 14
- Full Name: Dennis Hirota
- Company Details: Sam O Hirota Inc
- Company Position Title: President
- Country: USA
- Linkedin Profile: Yes
- Location: Hawaii, USA
- Has thanked: 87 times
- Been thanked: 379 times
Re: Georeferencing (Sorry)
Having a Riegl VZ400i makes this much easier.landmeterbeuckx wrote: ↑Thu May 31, 2018 1:48 pm The height with gps is absolutely not reliable. Even with rtk one has to measure each control point with a total station or even better a digital level. You take one measurement as reference for z and refer the rest to this one. Differences with rtk of several cm's are not uncommon.
Gps has to be taken in open canopy and under different constellations to be sure to be used.
With a riegl it is easier, you just put the rtk on top and do not have to worry about anything else. I do take control points for control.
Surveying is control and control and control...
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=13018
Riegl uses GeoSysManager utility software to convert LAT/LONG scan position to other world coordinate systems.
An example of Z (elevation) problems with GNSS information is the OPUS report for our Trimble R9 base station which deviates approximately 2 ft from the monument elevation, but less than 10mm in X, Y position.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- Felix_the_Cat
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:44 pm
- 7
- Full Name: Felix
- Company Details: Lockheed Martin
- Company Position Title: Senior Member Engineering Staff
- Country: USA
- Been thanked: 26 times
Georeferencing (Sorry)
YES!landmeterbeuckx wrote:
EDIT : if anyone is interested i want to make a small screen recording of how it's done in scene.
I am exceptionally interested please.
Edit: Whoops! You already did. I didn't make it that far when I posted this. Thanks!!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- landmeterbeuckx
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 1615
- Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 5:19 pm
- 11
- Full Name: Lieven Beuckx
- Company Details: Studiebureau Beuckx
- Company Position Title: Owner
- Country: Belgium
- Linkedin Profile: Yes
- Has thanked: 183 times
- Been thanked: 548 times
Re: Georeferencing (Sorry)
Dennis,dhirota wrote: ↑Thu May 31, 2018 7:00 pm
Riegl uses GeoSysManager utility software to convert LAT/LONG scan position to other world coordinate systems.
An example of Z (elevation) problems with GNSS information is the OPUS report for our Trimble R9 base station which deviates approximately 2 ft from the monument elevation, but less than 10mm in X, Y position.
OPUS solution _IGS000USA_R_20181261945_01D_15S_MO.rnx OP1525724177820_Page_1_1K_VERT.jpg
We don't have to work with base stations anymore. All ground is covered with permanent gps-stations (Flepos and Walcors systems) for RTK use.
Critical points are always being measured at the start and then at the end of the survey because of a complete different constellation. I use GPS in combination with Glonass.
One control point can be enough to detect vertical errors.
Geosysmanager works great indeed.
Lieven
-
- V.I.P Member
- Posts: 544
- Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:47 am
- 7
- Full Name: Martin Graner
- Company Details: PointCab GmbH
- Company Position Title: Research and Development
- Country: Germany
- Linkedin Profile: No
- Has thanked: 160 times
- Been thanked: 175 times
- Contact:
Re: Georeferencing (Sorry)
I'd like to add a thought to the accuracy mentioned by Scott Warren:
As I know it is possible to buy GPS improving data some days/weeks later due to the fact that the positions of the satellites can be determined more accurate some time later.
So with postprecessed GNSS data the accuracy should improve even further.
In addition: In Germany you don't need your own station for RTK, one could use SAPOS instead, I'm sure there is something similar in other countries.
@Lieven: Nice video!
As I know it is possible to buy GPS improving data some days/weeks later due to the fact that the positions of the satellites can be determined more accurate some time later.
So with postprecessed GNSS data the accuracy should improve even further.
In addition: In Germany you don't need your own station for RTK, one could use SAPOS instead, I'm sure there is something similar in other countries.
@Lieven: Nice video!