New RTC 360 coming in 2023???

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New RTC 360 coming in 2023???

Post by Kruse »

Just curious if anyone has heard any rumblings or if any of the Leica reps on this forum can provide any updates or hints about the next release of the RTC 360??? As usual, we have a fleet of RTC's and plenty of new projects requiring a new scanner, so it would be extremely helpful to have an understanding of when some new tech might be coming out with all the other new releases from FARO, Trimble, and Riegl.

Cheers!
-Kruse
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Re: New RTC 360 coming in 2023???

Post by Ioannis »

Until now riegl vz600i is overkill (100k) , but also a slam solution from z&F (looks perfect160k).
It’s all depends the funds you wants to spent an RTC cost only 55k..
If I have many contracts in 2023 I would go to z&f slam is the future..
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Re: New RTC 360 coming in 2023???

Post by Kruse »

Ioannis wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:21 pm Until now riegl vz600i is overkill (100k) , but also a slam solution from z&F (looks perfect160k).
It’s all depends the funds you wants to spent an RTC cost only 55k..
If I have many contracts in 2023 I would go to z&f slam is the future..
Working in Construction (mostly high rises or vertical construction), the vast majority of where we scan is on concrete decks before and after placing. Since these areas are nearly always only accessible via ladders and tight spaces up through prior deck placements or the elevator cores, nearly all SLAM options aren't viable because we physically cannot get the equipment up to the areas needing scanned (NavVis VLX being one we tested). The BLK2GO is about the only option from a SLAM perspective, but we need to scan with tolerances of 1/8" or less for all our QC (so BLK2GO won't work). I'm not sure what kind of case the Z+F would come in, but our RTC 360 backpack and tripod were a struggle to get to a few decks with the access points we had.

Even when you're able to get the equipment to the top deck, it's still the concern with walking and moving around across the reinforcing mat, PT cables, steel embeds, MEPF sleves and blockouts, etc. It can be tough enough to walk across the deck without any SLAM equipment on your back and stay on your feet, but when you have a scanner running on your back, walking smoothly and without tripping across all the Rebar would be quite the challenge with alot of our construction. Having something on a tripod is almost a necessity simply so there isn't the constant risk of tripping and dropping something.

We have plenty of projects that are 1 million+ SF all spread out across a single floor (large data centers) where SLAM would be a great option and we currently deploy NavVis systems for MEPF install QC for overhead and inwall type work. But we still need several more "traditional" type scanners on tripods (and store in a backpack) simply because we can't get the SLAM type devices to the areas we're working and don't have smooth(ish) surfaces we can walk across).
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Re: New RTC 360 coming in 2023???

Post by ericguizzetti »

Ioannis wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:21 pm Until now riegl vz600i is overkill (100k) , but also a slam solution from z&F (looks perfect160k).
It’s all depends the funds you wants to spent an RTC cost only 55k..
If I have many contracts in 2023 I would go to z&f slam is the future..
I talked to the rep today, he told me 125k. So yeah pretty expensive for sure.
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Re: New RTC 360 coming in 2023???

Post by ericguizzetti »

Kruse wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:34 pm
Ioannis wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:21 pm Until now riegl vz600i is overkill (100k) , but also a slam solution from z&F (looks perfect160k).
It’s all depends the funds you wants to spent an RTC cost only 55k..
If I have many contracts in 2023 I would go to z&f slam is the future..
Working in Construction (mostly high rises or vertical construction), the vast majority of where we scan is on concrete decks before and after placing. Since these areas are nearly always only accessible via ladders and tight spaces up through prior deck placements or the elevator cores, nearly all SLAM options aren't viable because we physically cannot get the equipment up to the areas needing scanned (NavVis VLX being one we tested). The BLK2GO is about the only option from a SLAM perspective, but we need to scan with tolerances of 1/8" or less for all our QC (so BLK2GO won't work). I'm not sure what kind of case the Z+F would come in, but our RTC 360 backpack and tripod were a struggle to get to a few decks with the access points we had.

Even when you're able to get the equipment to the top deck, it's still the concern with walking and moving around across the reinforcing mat, PT cables, steel embeds, MEPF sleves and blockouts, etc. It can be tough enough to walk across the deck without any SLAM equipment on your back and stay on your feet, but when you have a scanner running on your back, walking smoothly and without tripping across all the Rebar would be quite the challenge with alot of our construction. Having something on a tripod is almost a necessity simply so there isn't the constant risk of tripping and dropping something.

We have plenty of projects that are 1 million+ SF all spread out across a single floor (large data centers) where SLAM would be a great option and we currently deploy NavVis systems for MEPF install QC for overhead and inwall type work. But we still need several more "traditional" type scanners on tripods (and store in a backpack) simply because we can't get the SLAM type devices to the areas we're working and don't have smooth(ish) surfaces we can walk across).
Not sure who you have been talking to but no slam tech isn't very good and has a long way to go. We have two VLX and I'd say in your core you're going to be in out 6" in any tight spaces. I would also never trust that tech for anything that needs to be remotely accurate.
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Re: New RTC 360 coming in 2023???

Post by smacl »

ericguizzetti wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:25 amNot sure who you have been talking to but no slam tech isn't very good and has a long way to go. We have two VLX and I'd say in your core you're going to be in out 6" in any tight spaces. I would also never trust that tech for anything that needs to be remotely accurate.
I think the big issue with all the slam solutions out there is that they're oversold and little mention is made of the fact that you need good external control to achieve the accuracy required in many projects. The same is often true of static scanning, but most people expect this and understand control and registration take time and skill. External slam with RTK is fine if you're happy with RTK accuracy, but in any other scenario you need control to not only achieve the desired accuracies but to QA the final result. I don't think the problem is so much the tech as the false notion that it removes the need for proper control and QA, which of course adds to the field time and removes the reason why many people go for slam solutions.
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Re: New RTC 360 coming in 2023???

Post by gordonired »

Ioannis wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:21 pm Until now riegl vz600i is overkill (100k) , but also a slam solution from z&F (looks perfect160k).
It’s all depends the funds you wants to spent an RTC cost only 55k..
If I have many contracts in 2023 I would go to z&f slam is the future..
I've gotten recent quotes for both the RTC360 and vz600i here in Canada, and there is only about 20k CAD difference between the two. Can't believe the RTC is still that high after 4 years and no substantial (that I know of) hardware changes.
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Re: New RTC 360 coming in 2023???

Post by Kruse »

When using our VLX(s), we always use known control points to ensure the SLAM and registration is tight. We never use them without control as that's when you can start to see them drift and get out of tolerance. When we did some initial testing and compared the VLX to one of our RTC's, the VLX was generally within 1/2" of the RTC data when both were tied into the same control points. The scanned points that got a ways from the VLX (think 75' or more) did start to drift and see more error, but we wouldn't use those points anyways that far from where we scanned. We just don't use the VLX's for areas where we need to have super accurate scans such as concrete placements or elevator cores. We primarily use the VLX systems when we need to verify and track MEPF install and make sure it's being installed within 1" of the coordinated design models.

But none of that was why I created post... Still trying to see if anyone has heard if or when a new RTC will be coming out! :D
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Re: New RTC 360 coming in 2023???

Post by smacl »

Kruse wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:08 pmBut none of that was why I created post... Still trying to see if anyone has heard if or when a new RTC will be coming out! :D
Leica aren't usually shy about putting out lots of early teaser marketing when they've a new product on the way, so on that basis I'd doubt there is anything imminent. Given we've just had a new generation BLK360, I'm guessing that's where more recent R&D is still happening.
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Re: New RTC 360 coming in 2023???

Post by landmeterbeuckx »

ericguizzetti wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:22 am
Ioannis wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:21 pm Until now riegl vz600i is overkill (100k) , but also a slam solution from z&F (looks perfect160k).
It’s all depends the funds you wants to spent an RTC cost only 55k..
If I have many contracts in 2023 I would go to z&f slam is the future..
I talked to the rep today, he told me 125k. So yeah pretty expensive for sure.
You cannot compare a Riegl vz600i with a Leica Rtc360. They're different instruments for different markets.
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