RTC360 no level compensator

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pburrows145
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Re: RTC360 no level compensator

Post by pburrows145 »

Leandre Robitaille wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:22 am In my opinion people that purchased the RTC360 didn't do their homeworks and just got taken away by the amazing marketing leica did. Horrible picture, no compensator, large data files, propriatarie usb sticks. Yes it does 2million point per seconds, but at 120k$ cad (at launch) it was more expensive than 2 faro s70 scanners (about 50kcad at the time). You couldn't even use the 360 pictures at launch for the rtc360 until I think 1 year later lmao. Our companie just purchased more faro instead that have better pictures and a decent compensator(but I still wish it was more like the X7).
With 2 faro scanner that produce 2x 1million point per second,you can scan at similar speed than a rtc360 on site. Sphere targets are easy to move compared to leica chekerboards as they can be captured in any direction.

Just my 2 cent,I've ranted about the RTC a few times on this forum as it was such a fight in my company, everyone and their sister wanted to buy one and it took everything out of me to convince them not to.
You need to revisit the RTC360 IMHO - the latest update brings file sizes smaller than most manufacturers (try it and see), 5K images are lovely (and have been for some time), new "adaptive image resolution" linked to scan resolution is a lovely new feature, price is nowhere near you are stating (at least in Europe), plus you can buy RTC360 LT if price is a barrier. A lot of your claims (couldn't use images until 1 year after launch) are completely unsubstantiated. Sorry, had to pitch in here, because your statements are factually incorrect. Also, sphere targets can be used with Leica solutions also.. these are not FARO-specific.

Just my 2 cents...
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Re: RTC360 no level compensator

Post by crullier »

the RTC360LT is not a us offering is it?
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Re: RTC360 no level compensator

Post by pburrows145 »

I am sure if you asked, the LT would be sold to you... unusual not to be offered in a given region.

1m pps, same range, same accuracy, same imaging, no VIS... and of course, cheaper...
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Re: RTC360 no level compensator

Post by Leandre Robitaille »

pburrows145 wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:14 pm
You need to revisit the RTC360 IMHO - the latest update brings file sizes smaller than most manufacturers (try it and see), 5K images are lovely (and have been for some time), new "adaptive image resolution" linked to scan resolution is a lovely new feature, price is nowhere near you are stating (at least in Europe), plus you can buy RTC360 LT if price is a barrier. A lot of your claims (couldn't use images until 1 year after launch) are completely unsubstantiated. Sorry, had to pitch in here, because your statements are factually incorrect. Also, sphere targets can be used with Leica solutions also.. these are not FARO-specific.

Just my 2 cents...
File size is still much higher than faro scans, I havn't tested it but apparently the ''unzipping'' is very slow as well. I haven't look at the updated 360 images but from all the RTC360 scans I've seen, even from when we rented one in 2020, they are very ''pastel'' looking compared to a faro image. Price is what was given to us in 2018 in Canada, not of today, so for us it was cheaper to purchase 2 faro units. Faro prices are much lower today as well, I wouldn't be suprised if it is still a 1:2 ratio. Sphere is not an option in Register 360 as it creates spheres at any diameters (really. wtf). But you are right, it is possible for Cyclone main software, but it is very hard to have multiple size spheres in cyclone, we work with 200mm and 145mm spheres on most projects, the 200m are used for longer range. The 360 images could only be exported outside of the leica ecosystem in may 2019 (to be imported in recap or cintoo or within the e57 files for example) ...viewtopic.php?f=46&t=13863

I am not all wrong.
Last edited by Leandre Robitaille on Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RTC360 no level compensator

Post by crullier »

pburrows145 wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:59 pm I am sure if you asked, the LT would be sold to you... unusual not to be offered in a given region.

1m pps, same range, same accuracy, same imaging, no VIS... and of course, cheaper...
I just see all the resellers offering the regular version.
Thank you
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Re: RTC360 no level compensator

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How come I cant send someone a PM. The forum tells me im not authorized to view member profile.. does anyome know?
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Re: RTC360 no level compensator

Post by steves01x »

The RTC360 for us is very difficult to fault - we know its limits and that is why a P40 exists in the Leica range and why there are options in Cyclone to use targets and import processed data from a Total Station / GNSS.

1) I have never bothered on site to use VIS - mainly due to it using more battery power. Although maybe backwards to some given the VIS tech a sketch/old plans and pen are sufficient. This also makes things a lot smoother if a P40 is on site and you need additional notes e.g mirror, problem, targets etc for when you get it in to Cyclone as you can just drag the stations over the sketch and hook them up.

2) I never use a tablet and have no wish to ever need to carry one - a phone if a remote start on a high tripod is sufficient.

3) RTC images - they are pretty good, the hdr colour can look a bit strange when out doors and we dont always scan in colour.

4) Spheres - im pretty sure you can decide on the sphere size in Cyclone Core?

5) File size - not noticed any issues since the original firm ware.

6) Leica Memory sticks - a bit of a pain due to the price but they work, and transfer quickly over to the PC.

7) RTC range - yes the range at the highest quality is only 60m but its not purchased as a scanner with a big range or resolution at range.

8) The Trimble X7 is a really good scanner, ticks a lot of boxes for many but you have to use a tablet with it to even change the scan settings. On most of our internal measured building surveys you will probably do up to twice the amount of non colour scans in a day with RTC360. Out doors it doesnt have the range or resolution of P40. All data is best to go in to Trimbe Real works which i dont believe can even come close to Cyclone Core for registration etc. It is also not as easy to hire all over the UK as Leica or Faro products should you need additional kit.
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Re: RTC360 no level compensator

Post by Ioannis »

All data is best to go in to Trimbe Real works which i dont believe can even come close to Cyclone Core for registration etc

Can you explain it more please?
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Re: RTC360 no level compensator

Post by jamesworrell »

Done a few scans now with the RTC .. we average 15,000+ per annum.

First concept - there is no perfect scanner. There will always be a trade-off between accuracy, speed, price, imagery, registration etc. As they say, pick 3.

Yes - file sizes add up, but doesn' t make a whole lot of difference when importing overnight. You don't sit there and watch it.

Further licensing improvements would be nice though - Leica: why make ingest require a license for instance? In this way you could be ingesting N-jobs on N-computers and also split the Publish and Register licenses in R360.

But to this end, we publish from Cyclone Core - so core can grab the publish license first while we fire up rego on a different box (and in theory ingest on a further one).

Our ingest boxes are 5 year old workstations with a few upgrades - mainly SSD. You don't need to drop $15k on a box. Waste of money.

And again, you are probably going to publish overnight. You don't sit there and watch that either.

So
- day 1 scan
- day 2 morning register day 1 work + scan next site
- day 2 afternoon publish + start ingest of scanner day 2 overnight
- day 3 data available day 1 + rego day 2 etc.

We are talking 150'ish colour scans per day. I don't bother with the tablet, the VIS is awesome. You might end up with 2 or 3 bundles, but that goes together in the office no sweat.

So file sizes are a bit of a furphy IMHO.

Image presentation has improved - yes I would have preferred a proper exposure system (rather than a HDR fudge) and better images, but I "picked 3".

But back to original question on compensator. RTC is what I tend to call GPS-grade. We have seen 200 scan bundles match control to within 15mm for level (assuming total station was right and traverse was without errors!).

It seems to average the IMU reading for every scan, so overall bundles aren't far off at all. You can tweak with a few total station control points, a scan from DAC scanner (c10,p40 etc) or even GPS control points a bit further away from your site.

A few scans (eg a floor) I would be more worried and have used a few targets on the wall with a simple laser-line level to give comfort as to level - have also used total stations. Similarly, long linear projects that don't close - you would want TS or GPS floating around.

Sample rego from about 100 scans .. 3 level building and 2 street frontages. Registered together as a single bundle with no control - just a few targets so as to put on control later.

So this first rego shows the values against the control where the bundle is NOT set to levelled - it can swing 6-degrees of freedom.
Bundle free.JPG
This one .. I've told Cyclone the bundle is actually LEVEL - so can only move in 3-degrees.
Bundle level.JPG
Control marks are 6" targets on bipods (as opposed to optical plummets etc).

Do you reckon you would be sweating on not having a DAC for an average topo with a few GPS marks??

Result ...
Bundle scene.JPG
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Re: RTC360 no level compensator

Post by crullier »

"A few scans (eg a floor) I would be more worried and have used a few targets on the wall with a simple laser-line level to give comfort as to level"
Are you saying to use a live level to aling a few targets ocross the horizontal laser line? Is that really necessary, does it work well?
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