Leica RTC360 Reality Capture Solution

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caddrafting2013
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Re: Leica RTC360 Reality Capture Solution

Post by caddrafting2013 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:13 pm

jamesworrell wrote:Please please _PLEASE_ give us an option re: HDR on/off .. like next FW release.

357GB for 166 scans .. just to get a coloured point cloud .. ?

Taking ~ 24hours just to import the thing.

Then the single-threaded, dreadfully slow, LGS exporter is going to take how long? I'd take a punt here .. 3 days?

Going to be 4 or 5 days to deliver anything to the client .. at best.

So the irony was - in the "old" days we would question whether we could afford to get colour because of the scanning time .. now we question whether we want colour because of the processing time and storage absurdity.

Speed. Scale. Simplicity. Eventually.

James.

It’s like Leica hasn’t thought through the processing. Maybe super quick in the field but the size of these High Res HDR is ridiculous.

Who wants overnight importing again or days of processing!!


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Re: Leica RTC360 Reality Capture Solution

Post by jamesworrell » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:16 am

caddrafting2013 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:13 pm
It’s like Leica hasn’t thought through the processing. Maybe super quick in the field but the size of these High Res HDR is ridiculous.

Who wants overnight importing again or days of processing!!
And they are also working on not just double scan for noise removal .. but double photos .. ahhhahaha ..

On another matter - LGS export from R360 - "Can not do HDR point cloud data unless ALL scans are colour and from an RTC" .. so another nail in the coffin for HDR?

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Re: Leica RTC360 Reality Capture Solution

Post by topogeo » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:46 am

known, with regret, that no man Leica has so far answered the problem of excessive size of scans with HDR ..
.. or maybe .. they are working in silence to solve .. ??? :)
Piercarlo

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Re: Leica RTC360 Reality Capture Solution

Post by pburrows145 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:12 pm

topogeo wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:46 am
known, with regret, that no man Leica has so far answered the problem of excessive size of scans with HDR ..
.. or maybe .. they are working in silence to solve .. ??? :)
Piercarlo
File sizes for scans with HDR are being looked - we have not had a huge number of people complain about this however. Perhaps many are still not taking images?

Most people are overwhelmed by the overall speed, quality of data and speed of imaging - oh, and that lovely VIS technology for on-site registration. :geek:

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Re: Leica RTC360 Reality Capture Solution

Post by jamesworrell » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:34 pm

Perhaps has more to do with project size or scan volumes .. a typical site for us starts at 200 scans .. and we have scanning jobs most days ..

So at the throughput of this thing we are talking roughly a terabyte a week to deal with ..

It takes time to ingest .. it takes time to export .. tying up licenses way longer by the way .. which I mentioned to Andrew Hurley in Brisbane yesterday ;-p

We haven't actually delivered much data downstream yet either - so whilst we are somewhat used to dealing with large amounts of data - typically when we dump it on an architectural or engineering firm or even the asset owner - it has can come as a rather large shock - and we just increased our deliverables roughly by a factor of 10. We usually price an external SSD in to the cost of the job .. but this is next level.

At a terabyte a week we have back up costs as well - we use Azure cold-tier locally redundant x 2 storage accounts (duplicate it) .. so we used to keep all of our raw scan data, the imp, any delivered data (say E57/RCP), COE ..

But 1TB of raw scan data on Azure for 5 years is going to cost $7200 roughly to keep - for one weeks work - that is $360,000 per annum, if this thing is out every day solid. It is an interesting legislative question - from a survey act perspective what are we legally obliged to retain .. are the raw scans actually required - this is something we will need to discuss as a partner group. Even say 250 scans a week at 2.5gb per scan for 50 weeks of the year kept for 5 years = 31TB per annum generated .. 156TB at peak .. $18000 per MONTH .. in cloud storage costs .. or $200,000 per year .. assuming storage costs don't come down - which they will - but that is hard to model.

And because of its speed - we envisage we will do more scans than we used to. Construction validation is now viable for example - so there are new markets to develop = more scans. The cross over point between a total station job and a scanning job has narrowed massively - so probably more scans. Boss is already looking at getting a second .. so 2TB a week .. FML ;-p

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Re: Leica RTC360 Reality Capture Solution

Post by jamesworrell » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:13 am

And just to spin this out - almost worth a whole new thread - but Register 360 should be releasing licenses during certain processes ..

1) Ingesting - neither Register license nor Publisher Pro license should be be consumed
2) Optimising etc - Publisher Pro license should not be consumed (so just Register - fair enough)
3) Publishing - Register license should not be consumed (Publisher fair enough)

Given some of the above tasks can easily take 24 hours + it is not realistic to use Register 360 - we can't afford to tie licenses up that long.

Also - need "Pause" buttons around the place .. like pausing an ingest .. or LGS export - again - release the licenses. Something urgent comes in we don't want to stop a 2 or 3 day LGS export say.

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Re: Leica RTC360 Reality Capture Solution

Post by topogeo » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:45 am

pburrows145 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:12 pm
images?

Most people are overwhelmed by the overall speed, quality of data and speed of imaging - oh, and that lovely VIS technology for on-site registration. :geek:
it's true .. all are impressed by the speed in the countryside .. but .. also because very few have completed the work with the management in the office ..
In Italy, the first RTC360 units will be shown only now ..and so far .. all have only seen the demos in the country .. but how many have tried to manage a complete job of 300 scans ???
I had the chance to try out the RTC360 for a couple of days and complete the job. It 'sa pity that the speed in the countryside .. is not connected to a speed even in the management and processing in the office ..
In order to make it better, it would not be enough: you do not need to add anything (which is always difficult) ..but only TO REMOVE something -HDR- (which should be simple).
And given the speed to give up the photos just for the deimsnioni files it seems a pity ...
However .. I am confident that the HDR will be put only optionally ... (I ordered an RTC360 which should arrive in November) :D

Piercarlo

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Re: Leica RTC360 Reality Capture Solution

Post by pburrows145 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:02 am

There is a customer in the UK with 2 units. They scan on low-resolution and carry out up to 500 scans with each unit per day (no colour).

I know from tests that I can import 30 stations in ~7 minutes on low res. That means the whole job will come in (1000 scans) in around 4 hours.

Obviously with images the scan files increase considerably and the import times grows accordingly... and if you're scanning on medium or high, the file size grows accordingly.

I am not sure this is on the agenda for the dev team, but would you want an non-HDR option for imagery for the RTC360? Would the main aim to be to drive down file size? If the file-size was compressed for HDR, would the need for non-HDR go away?

FYI - please ensure you have the latest versions of Cyclone/REG360 installed as the export issues have now been fixed (meaning smaller E57's and correctly oriented scans from PTX files... which some customers were experiencing).

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Re: Leica RTC360 Reality Capture Solution

Post by Ioannis » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:09 am

Why to use images if you dont want it ?
If the scans are clear like P series you can see everything with intesity with lower files sizes..

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Re: Leica RTC360 Reality Capture Solution

Post by topogeo » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:39 am

pburrows145 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:02 am
"I am not sure this is on the agenda for the dev team, but would you want an non-HDR option for imagery for the RTC360? Would the main aim to be to drive down file size? If the file-size was compressed for HDR, would the need for non-HDR go away? "
The main problem is the dimensions (which mainly affect the import time and the archive size.) In Register360 the processing, after import, is very fast and also the .gsgs file has acceptable dimensions.
In the last test: 43 scans all HDR 6mm / 10 mt. Raw data 63.8 GB, archive file of register .raf 37 GB, file E57 40.3 gb. Recap project (support folder) 28.5 gb, .lgs file 8.00 gb ..
As you can see the file lgs is the most compact ... (I'm trying to convince customers to use Jetstream Viewer instead of RECAP .. but the problem is that they want the RCP file to import the cloud into AutoCAD without other software)

There is also another small detail: with the HDR colors always have a hue ... pastel .. not really real ... but it's a detail :-)

If Leica was able to compress the images ..and this did not weigh down the processing ... it would be excellent

pburrows145 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:02 am
FYI - please ensure you have the latest versions of Cyclone/REG360 installed as the export issues have now been fixed (meaning smaller E57's and correctly oriented scans from PTX files... which some customers were experiencing).
I installed the 1.5.1 and very little problems were solved.
I feel very comfortable with register360.
For an inexperienced user it's very simple. Experienced users still prefer Cyclone which has a lot more functionality ... but ... I hope that even Register360 will become complete step by step.
As for the topography and the GPS: we Leica users had LGO then Infinity arrived: much more modern and simple but at the beginning with few functions ... then .. little by little Infinity has grown and now does everything. .even more..

Piercarlo

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