Edgewise model into Revit

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Edgewise model into Revit

Postby Shivakumar » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:23 pm

Hello Everyone,

I have recently started using Edgewise and Revit, I extracted pipes, structures and building in Edgewise, and I imported in Revit which I extracted in Edgewise with help of edgewise plugins. Model imported on the original coordinate. Then I am inserting point cloud (*RCP) into Revit (origin to origin) point cloud going away from the model. I am trying to bring both model and point cloud into Revit on the original coordinate for post process. How can I import both point cloud and edgewise model into Revit? I think I am missing some steps. :| please help me to do this.

Thank you.
shiva.
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Re: Edgewise model into Revit

Postby Matt Young » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:58 pm

It's always better to work on local coordinates when modelling in Revit. Ideally you should set the coordinates to be local in the scan data before starting the modelling. You can always assign shared coordinates back to the Revit model afterwards. Some people will tell you to move the project base point, but this does not fix the problem.
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Re: Edgewise model into Revit

Postby jmoranCE3D » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Hey Shiva,

I suggest importing the point cloud "Auto - By Shared Coordinates" in to Revit rather than "Origin to Origin". In my experience with EdgeWise "By Shared Coordinates" achieves better results. Best of luck!
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Re: Edgewise model into Revit

Postby Shivakumar » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:05 pm

Hello Jason,

I have inserted point cloud "By Shared Coordinates" into Revit but point cloud is shifted a bit away from the model. please find the attached screenshot.

Thanks you
shiva.



jmoranCE3D wrote:Hey Shiva,

I suggest importing the point cloud "Auto - By Shared Coordinates" in to Revit rather than "Origin to Origin". In my experience with EdgeWise "By Shared Coordinates" achieves better results. Best of luck!
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Re: Edgewise model into Revit

Postby Matt Young » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:29 pm

Revit (And AutoCAD) and large coordinates do not really work. The only way you will solve this properly is to move to local coordinates and apply a transformation to large coordinates.
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Re: Edgewise model into Revit

Postby sreed » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:04 pm

we get these results if the Revit project has a Project and True North that don't align. Try "undoing" the Project North in your Revit model.
-S.
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Re: Edgewise model into Revit

Postby MALTBY » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:11 pm

Hi everyone.

The topic of linking data with large coordinates etc is quite complex but can be achieved.

A workflow that i use to get CAD plans and Point clouds with large data sets is as follows.

Firstly when you start revit the PBP and Survey marker both reside at the internal default location for Revit (Revit World) and it is from this location that the model cannot drift to far. However the Survey Marker (Shared Coordinate) can.

Take the example that a CAD Plan prepared on full UK National Mapping Coordinates of say 529560E and 181270N

If you try to link this on a shared coordinate system Revit will tell you that a) that there is no shared system and that b) it is to far away and will place the Plan Centre to Centre.

So go ahead and place the plan at Centre to Centre and then aquire its coordinates by going to the manage tab, Coordinates, Aquire Coodinates selecting the CAD plan as the source.

You should see that the Revit PBP has not moved but is now reporting a large coordinate. The Survey Marker should have moved and will report a shared origin of 0,0,0.

If you try and link the CAD plan again you should now be able to do this via a shared coordinate method.

With this system set up you should also be able to link a point cloud that is registered to the same large coordinates, even though Revit is still (in its mind) local and small.

setting up relationships between the survey marker and PBP allows you to link different data sets into the same model, these relationships (Locations) can be saved to allow the linking of information from different coordinate systems.

Just remember that if you have information already linked to one shared system and you change to another your previous link will move.

Understanding how to, when to and why to use the different linking methods is very complex but hopefully the above helps in some way.

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Re: Edgewise model into Revit

Postby Matt Young » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:27 pm

I prefer to locate the point cloud locally, right near the origin. I pick a point that is near the point cloud and change it to 0,0 for x and y and leave the elevation as is. I then export the data/convert to RCS etc. I fortunately have the luxury of using Cyclone to set up a local system for the scan data.

I load the data into Revit origin to origin. Now the data is truly local and won't cause any display or positional issues.

I assign the original large coordinates to the shared coordinate object in Revit (not project base point). Now large coordinates can be read from the model correctly.

I have tried in the past to move the project base point close to the point cloud data but using this method the point cloud displays badly.

To bring in CAD drawings I save a version of the CAD drawing with the same origin point as the scan data.

Any method that does not really have the data in a true local position is just asking for trouble in my opinion.
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Re: Edgewise model into Revit

Postby MALTBY » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:50 pm

Matt

I agree keeping it local is always the best way with point cloud registrations for many many reasons.

This is a workflow for when someone has provided a PC on large coordinates (or CAD plans) without the need for moving and truncating.

Revit is still seeing the point cloud as a local file because of the PBP and Internal Revit origin, it is just using the survey marker to position it inside Revit and reporting values that shows the large coordinates.
The point cloud is sitting locally to the modeled geometry just as if it was truncated.

You can of course bring in a truncated point cloud registered at small coordinates and get revit to report large coordinates with the same method of setting up this relationship. The point cloud is not moving just being reported differently.

We have modeled many times like this without any hiccups when provided with large coordinate Point clouds provided that you are not moving PBP, as you said.

Large coordinates most certainly cause problems in other CAD platforms hence the necessity to register locally.
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Re: Edgewise model into Revit

Postby Matt Young » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:13 pm

I guess that if it's working for you then that is all good. Adapting a workflow that suits is what it's all about.

Just remember that unless the point cloud is re-written to local coordinates (long process) even with the appearance of being local, it's not. I suspect that later versions of Revit have smoothed some of the display issues on large coordinates (patched some of the math) but not really solved the problem. I'm sure I don't need to tell you Floating-point arithmetic on computers is inexact.

If you are given data to work with and it's on large system, then I agree there is not much you can do without it becoming a little complicated.

I always aim to make it simple and when I have done that I make it simple again.
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