What was the driver's view?
- colhum1
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What was the driver's view?
Here in the UK our Fatal Collision investigation reports are really in the first instance for the Coroner and then Crown Prosecution Service to decide if anyone is blame worthy....followed by the insurance companies who want as much data as we can give them...at a price of course
One question we always get is: "What did the driver see..?" or "What was the view in his/her mirrors ?" etc etc.
Our best practice has been photograph everything.
We sit in the driver's seat (or passenger seat if they're a witness) and snap away.
We've now started using our laser scanner to give interior views post impact such as below:
And I've also found the iSTAR camera as a valuable aid. I set it on a tripod on the driver's seat and adjusted to their eye level. The resulting panorama allows a 360 view and views into the relevant mirrors etc.
(FSP viewer... is a good free pano viewer )
I'm sure their are countless ways of doing the same thing but thought I'd share mine....
One question we always get is: "What did the driver see..?" or "What was the view in his/her mirrors ?" etc etc.
Our best practice has been photograph everything.
We sit in the driver's seat (or passenger seat if they're a witness) and snap away.
We've now started using our laser scanner to give interior views post impact such as below:
And I've also found the iSTAR camera as a valuable aid. I set it on a tripod on the driver's seat and adjusted to their eye level. The resulting panorama allows a 360 view and views into the relevant mirrors etc.
(FSP viewer... is a good free pano viewer )
I'm sure their are countless ways of doing the same thing but thought I'd share mine....
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Re: What was the driver's view?
We have not done that in the past, but I've been thinking about scanning interiors for view obstructions.
I would personally never opine on what anyone saw....."what did the driver see?".....I have no idea, but here is the view from their approximate eye position, but I don't know what they were looking at!!! Same goes for a witness. I just would not give an opinion, but would provide relevant photos....or scans. Obviously, witnesses or persons involved in the crash can testify about what they saw, I just wouldn't generally.
How well does the scan pick up the mirrors?? Are reflections a problem or do you coat the mirrors before scanning??
Do you place the scanner at the approximate position of the bridge on their nose?? How close do you think are are to a precise location??
Wes
I would personally never opine on what anyone saw....."what did the driver see?".....I have no idea, but here is the view from their approximate eye position, but I don't know what they were looking at!!! Same goes for a witness. I just would not give an opinion, but would provide relevant photos....or scans. Obviously, witnesses or persons involved in the crash can testify about what they saw, I just wouldn't generally.
How well does the scan pick up the mirrors?? Are reflections a problem or do you coat the mirrors before scanning??
Do you place the scanner at the approximate position of the bridge on their nose?? How close do you think are are to a precise location??
Wes
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Re: What was the driver's view?
One thing that comes up...at least as long as I've been doing this stuff is the discrepancy between what a digital/pinhole camera can see and what a the human eye can see. They are two vastly different methods of viewing a picture...be it in the real world or digitally. There isn't any real solution, and there is even some real debate as to what the standard is...50mm lens size. The human factors guys talk about the effective viewing area of our eyes which is basically the area within our picture that our brains can use for perception reaction...even though we can see much more ie peripheral.. This is different then pinhole cameras which see everything equally.
As i said there are no real solutions but you are doing is great, what we do is great...as long as its taken with its pros and cons.
...that istar camera looks cool! Can it do hdr images?
As i said there are no real solutions but you are doing is great, what we do is great...as long as its taken with its pros and cons.
...that istar camera looks cool! Can it do hdr images?
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Re: What was the driver's view?
I like the idea of the camera in the position of the driver and then let the person viewing the image determine what they could actually see.
Usually what we do is try to show 2 (or more) versions in an animation and show the most they could have possibly seen and then possibly what they claim they saw.
Dwayne is correct about there being many different opinions as to what humans "actually" see.
Effectively it is a pretty small area...
If I didn't have to work for a living, I think it would be another of those very interesting papers to write.
David
Usually what we do is try to show 2 (or more) versions in an animation and show the most they could have possibly seen and then possibly what they claim they saw.
Dwayne is correct about there being many different opinions as to what humans "actually" see.
Effectively it is a pretty small area...
If I didn't have to work for a living, I think it would be another of those very interesting papers to write.
David
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Re: What was the driver's view?
totally agree with both Dwayne and David.
All that said. Keep scanning!!! I think what you're doing is great and we can all learn from your experience.
Wes
All that said. Keep scanning!!! I think what you're doing is great and we can all learn from your experience.
Wes
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Re: What was the driver's view?
I forgot to mention, the way I would use that pano image would be to load it into my iPad App and let people view it.
When I show that to Law Enforcement here in the US, they get all excited about it, and it is just a simple App.
The fact they can rotate their body around while holding the iPad and have the view turn as if they were looking through the camera's eye gets them really "juicy"...
David
When I show that to Law Enforcement here in the US, they get all excited about it, and it is just a simple App.
The fact they can rotate their body around while holding the iPad and have the view turn as if they were looking through the camera's eye gets them really "juicy"...
David
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- colhum1
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Re: What was the driver's view?
Thanks for the replies guys....sounds like we're all looking at things in a similar way....
As I mentioned elsewhere what a great idea/format this forum is and look at us doing similar jobs but in Canada, USA and the UK.
Witness perception and opinion are to be decided by the courts...our job is to gather as much data and evidence as we can....other 'experts' can debate all day long about what was or wasn't. I just produce my reports based on the physical and witness evidence. Many experts that I come up against in court have not even been to a 'live' scene and base their reports on my evidence and I'm sure that occurs world wide.
But hey, don't we have the best job in the world..! I think so...all those techie toys to play with
I fully agree with the Human Factors raised. Yep, no one will ever replace the human eye, which constantly scans and focuses and rescans, then the head moves too..!
David you're right about your app....in fact the 360 panoramic stuff is really taking off and it's a great way to explain a scene.
I like to use the iSTAR and walk through the scene taking various panoramic views at relevant points. I then run these through pano2vr and create a tour with hotspots including close up digital pics of eg critical tyre marks, kerb strikes etc. That gets people's attention. Interactivity, bit like laser scanned fly throughs..!
Scanning mirrors is interesting and can give odd results bit like putting a mirror against another mirror...it goes on and on...but wing and interior mirrors tend to be offset or angled, so that effect doesn't occur...self dipping mirrors are great to mess with. But the main problem is scanner size...our C10 is too large, Focus3D is better for interiors.
The iSTAR does HDR which makes it perfect for all conditions esp bright sunlight.
As far as seating position and height, I simply take a look at the driver....experience from seating position can give you leg and torso height too.
I also like to use the iSTAR on the pavement/sidewalk for pedestrian knock down when it's reported that they've stepped off of the kerb. Again set it to their height and take the 360.
Sorry..that reply was a bit longer than I meant it to be.
Always happy to discuss and chat.
Colin
As I mentioned elsewhere what a great idea/format this forum is and look at us doing similar jobs but in Canada, USA and the UK.
Witness perception and opinion are to be decided by the courts...our job is to gather as much data and evidence as we can....other 'experts' can debate all day long about what was or wasn't. I just produce my reports based on the physical and witness evidence. Many experts that I come up against in court have not even been to a 'live' scene and base their reports on my evidence and I'm sure that occurs world wide.
But hey, don't we have the best job in the world..! I think so...all those techie toys to play with
I fully agree with the Human Factors raised. Yep, no one will ever replace the human eye, which constantly scans and focuses and rescans, then the head moves too..!
David you're right about your app....in fact the 360 panoramic stuff is really taking off and it's a great way to explain a scene.
I like to use the iSTAR and walk through the scene taking various panoramic views at relevant points. I then run these through pano2vr and create a tour with hotspots including close up digital pics of eg critical tyre marks, kerb strikes etc. That gets people's attention. Interactivity, bit like laser scanned fly throughs..!
Scanning mirrors is interesting and can give odd results bit like putting a mirror against another mirror...it goes on and on...but wing and interior mirrors tend to be offset or angled, so that effect doesn't occur...self dipping mirrors are great to mess with. But the main problem is scanner size...our C10 is too large, Focus3D is better for interiors.
The iSTAR does HDR which makes it perfect for all conditions esp bright sunlight.
As far as seating position and height, I simply take a look at the driver....experience from seating position can give you leg and torso height too.
I also like to use the iSTAR on the pavement/sidewalk for pedestrian knock down when it's reported that they've stepped off of the kerb. Again set it to their height and take the 360.
Sorry..that reply was a bit longer than I meant it to be.
Always happy to discuss and chat.
Colin
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Re: What was the driver's view?
Colin....can that iStar output the spherical video preview as well? I have an idea that might work together with another technology that we use.
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Re: What was the driver's view?
Dwayne, iSTAR can capture sequential spherical panoramas than can then be post processed to 360 spherical video. The frame rate is dependant on resolution and resolution is dependant on the video codec you want to use.dwayne-ellis wrote:Colin....can that iStar output the spherical video preview as well? I have an idea that might work together with another technology that we use.
- colhum1
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Re: What was the driver's view?
The pano images that I've posted have been scaled down for this site to 1000 x 500 pixels.
They're actually 10000 x 5000.
Col
They're actually 10000 x 5000.
Col
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