Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client

Discuss all BIM related issues here.
User avatar
3DForensics
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 1944
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:52 am
Full Name: Eugene Liscio
Company Details: AI2-3D Forensics
Company Position Title: Owner
Skype Name: eliscio
Location: Toronto, Canada
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 35 times
Contact:

Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client

Post by 3DForensics »

It's not my area of work, but super low res scans would have you flying through there in no time with enough density to give them what they want with a disto. Then again, if all you need is a disto, head over to your local hardware store and for $!00, you have yourself a business!
crullier
I have made 90-100 posts
I have made 90-100 posts
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:26 am
Full Name: RAR
Company Details: DDS
Company Position Title: DDS
Country: US
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client

Post by crullier »

True,

I don't want to turn this into a cost type thread and get away from the original question.
But like some said earlier - TLS is pricey because of the amount of data and the quality of the data (provided you know what you are doing right?)

I think this is some of those clients - just like many - that need a litle bit of education. For this project I would honeslty charge "disto" rates but would scan it bc its going to be faster that way and more efficient for us - from a business pespective that sort if make sense.

It almost makes me want to think that we should get a navis or BLK2Go just to spend less time on these sites i nthe future and be able to charge less for scanning time. The part that makes it model challenging is that those devices are 70K USD which is still expensive.

But overall I glad to know that I was thinking in the right terms with regards to what TLS brings to the table compared to just a disto workflow.
User avatar
3DForensics
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 1944
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:52 am
Full Name: Eugene Liscio
Company Details: AI2-3D Forensics
Company Position Title: Owner
Skype Name: eliscio
Location: Toronto, Canada
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 35 times
Contact:

Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client

Post by 3DForensics »

All good points and please don't think I am judging you...I think we all face this type of challenge in our work every now and then and some more than others!
crullier
I have made 90-100 posts
I have made 90-100 posts
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:26 am
Full Name: RAR
Company Details: DDS
Company Position Title: DDS
Country: US
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client

Post by crullier »

no problem, none at all.
I don't have problems with clients who does BIM's for their design and hires us to do complete shells and turn on an as-built model. They have never complained about accuracy so we must be doing something right, but its the client like this one, who are working in 2D cad who don't care about a 3d view or the amount of insight TLS bring, that is it hard #1 to justify the cost of scanning and #2 like this one, explain to them that our AVERAGED out linework or walls along a point cloud, even with LOA-4 or even worse at times when you make wall perpendicular is just as accurate and in all cases a far better representation of the conditions on-site than any other process.

Here is the image I tried to post earlier.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
landmeterbeuckx
V.I.P Member
V.I.P Member
Posts: 841
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 5:19 pm
Full Name: Lieven Beuckx
Company Details: Studiebureau Beuckx
Company Position Title: Owner
Country: Belgium
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Has thanked: 65 times
Been thanked: 165 times

Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client

Post by landmeterbeuckx »

crullier wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:33 pm I have a client with wants an "as-built" of the interior of a building for area calculations. When I called in to speak with him he told me that he would rather send someone in with a "disto" laser line because that was a more accurate way to measure a space than with a TLS.
Good discussion and i will reply with some thoughts but at first i want to say : ditch this client and move on. I've wasted far to much time explaining why i do it like the way i do and why it costs this much $$$.

Let him use a bloody disto and try to connect floors and rooms together. A disto is good for 1 room only or if you meastured with a TS to complete single room plans.
LSBbvba
Surveying services - 3D Laserscanning
Tel : +32477753126
www.lsbbvba.be
[email protected]
cesaratleica
I have made <0 posts
I have made <0 posts
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:10 pm
Full Name: Cesar Almeida
Company Details: Leica Geosystems
Company Position Title: Reality Capture Specialist
Country: UK
Linkedin Profile: Yes
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client

Post by cesaratleica »

This is definitely an interesting and recurring topic.
And it always seems to revolve around the same discussion points.
    How the perceived value of scanning if viewed in the eyes on the final client, as compared to traditional methods.
      The selling skills of service providers, which is a skill that requires learning and practice
        The balance of educating the client vs the return on the time investment for this education. As Lieven mentioned, sometimes might as well just move on, but this is not something obvious, and clearly depends on the business.

        I can (and I had..) have a similar conversation regarding measuring using tape measures or robotic total stations (or camera based uav's and laser scanning devices, for different applications. take your pick). Just depends on who's on the other side listening, I guess...
        User avatar
        landmeterbeuckx
        V.I.P Member
        V.I.P Member
        Posts: 841
        Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 5:19 pm
        Full Name: Lieven Beuckx
        Company Details: Studiebureau Beuckx
        Company Position Title: Owner
        Country: Belgium
        Linkedin Profile: Yes
        Has thanked: 65 times
        Been thanked: 165 times

        Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client

        Post by landmeterbeuckx »

        cesaratleica wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:22 am This is definitely an interesting and recurring topic.
        And it always seems to revolve around the same discussion points.
          How the perceived value of scanning if viewed in the eyes on the final client, as compared to traditional methods.
            The selling skills of service providers, which is a skill that requires learning and practice
              The balance of educating the client vs the return on the time investment for this education. As Lieven mentioned, sometimes might as well just move on, but this is not something obvious, and clearly depends on the business.

              I can (and I had..) have a similar conversation regarding measuring using tape measures or robotic total stations (or camera based uav's and laser scanning devices, for different applications. take your pick). Just depends on who's on the other side listening, I guess...
              I've been doing this for 22 years.I know and would hope people. would believe my judgment.
              if you are going go have surgery, are you going to ask him the tools he will be using? I'm not.

              dou you know this famous saying by the best cop in the world, Sledgehammer : "trust me, i know what i'm doing!" 8-)
              LSBbvba
              Surveying services - 3D Laserscanning
              Tel : +32477753126
              www.lsbbvba.be
              [email protected]
              cesaratleica
              I have made <0 posts
              I have made <0 posts
              Posts: 8
              Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:10 pm
              Full Name: Cesar Almeida
              Company Details: Leica Geosystems
              Company Position Title: Reality Capture Specialist
              Country: UK
              Linkedin Profile: Yes
              Has thanked: 1 time

              Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client

              Post by cesaratleica »

              landmeterbeuckx wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:45 am
              cesaratleica wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:22 am This is definitely an interesting and recurring topic.
              And it always seems to revolve around the same discussion points.
                How the perceived value of scanning if viewed in the eyes on the final client, as compared to traditional methods.
                  The selling skills of service providers, which is a skill that requires learning and practice
                    The balance of educating the client vs the return on the time investment for this education. As Lieven mentioned, sometimes might as well just move on, but this is not something obvious, and clearly depends on the business.

                    I can (and I had..) have a similar conversation regarding measuring using tape measures or robotic total stations (or camera based uav's and laser scanning devices, for different applications. take your pick). Just depends on who's on the other side listening, I guess...
                    I've been doing this for 22 years.I know and would hope people. would believe my judgment.
                    if you are going go have surgery, are you going to ask him the tools he will be using? I'm not.

                    dou you know this famous saying by the best cop in the world, Sledgehammer : "trust me, i know what i'm doing!" 8-)
                    :D Don't know that one, only the "trust me, I'm an engineer" one, which I guess it's similar in nature... :lol:
                    I don't doubt our clients, generally speaking, trust the experts judgment. It's how we, or our clients, convey the message to theirs... most of them just want to have data on their fingers. Swipe right if you like it, swipe left if you don't. They don't really care about the background profile. Moving away from that... takes a very powerful message and skills in communication. My two cents, as it were.
                    crullier
                    I have made 90-100 posts
                    I have made 90-100 posts
                    Posts: 92
                    Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:26 am
                    Full Name: RAR
                    Company Details: DDS
                    Company Position Title: DDS
                    Country: US
                    Has thanked: 9 times
                    Been thanked: 1 time

                    Re: Laser scanning is not accurate... ok Mr. client

                    Post by crullier »

                    both of your bring up a point that was brought up at dinner last night by a good friend of mine - "move on".
                    Post Reply

                    Return to “Building Information Modeling [BIM]”